Chris on 
This question has been nagging at me for some months now. I have my own opinions about it, and they’re not ones I feel good about. But, I’m intrigued to learn what others think.
Anyone who knows me knows that I’m quite aurally fixated. I am a music fan. Actually, that’s putting it too mildly. I’m obsessed by music. Always have been. Going back to my pre-teen days in (gasp) late ‘50s, when Jerry Lee Lewis was my first rock shock witnessed on B&W TV. Then into the Beatles and Brit invasion during adolescence, then off to Woodstock and on to college and post-college where I got into radio as an announcer for an extended period, presenting alternative, sort-of-underground programs.
I’ve attended countless concerts all over the place. Big shows, little shows, weird shows, local shows, arenas, auditoriums, taverns, coffee houses, fields; top names, no-names, you name it. I have an insatiable hunger for music. I talk about it. I play a bit of guitar. I do a radio show on Thursday nights on WNRB-LP here in Wausau (93.3 FM).
In my rose-colored-glasses view of “the way it used to be,” I have the impression that people used to be more interested in music, new music, live music. Music was political, topical, interesting, provocative, magnetic and accessible if your mind was open. People showed up for jams in the park, battles of the bands, jazz or rock concerts, what-have-you. And they were there to LISTEN, to absorb the music, to pay attention to the musicians, to have an experience based on the music.
Fast-forward to today. A thousand people show up at the 400 Block for a Wednesday night show (this is good!), but it seems most everyone is there to visit each other; they eat, drink and converse endlessly, sometimes tossing in a polite round of applause at the end of a tune. The music is just so much aural wallpaper. I drop into Malarkey’s afterward and Tyler is performing; and the bar is a deafening buzz of everyone talking and essentially ignoring the performer. I drop into the Fillmor to catch a blues band, and there are about 25 people there. The Violent Femmes, Better Than Ezra and Carbon Leaf can’t sell out the venue at Marathon Park! Go to a Lollapalooza and see how hundreds of crazed moshers gleefully do each other harm instead of paying attention to the musicians on stage.
Has the power of music been subsumed to the focus on self? Is the concert now all about “me”? Are the musicians now just fixtures that provide the excuse for the party? Do people not care to leave their sofas and TVs to experience something real and immediate?
And, musicians are not exempt from my cynicism. How many acts now seem to be phoning it in? How much posturing and boredom and lunch-pail mentality is seeping into the mindsets of musicians to where their passion and creativity are no longer evident? I see so many bands and performers these days that play music with all the feeling that they might exhibit when hammering a nail or making a sandwich. Whatever happened to be-bop jazz? How can someone like Kenny G become a “jazz” icon? (I think it’s because he doesn’t challenge anyone or anything as he “plays” his vapid crap.)
Radio has devolved into a blur of high-profile, classic rock “hit” formats (“here’s one of the 3 tunes by the Kinks that you EVER have to hear”), political talk shows (blowhards), country & western (vanilla in hats), etc. One has to dig deep or travel far to find a station or program that actually explores the depths and breadth of music (new and vintage).
I feel, on the whole, that people just don’t care about music anymore. “Care,” as in: hunger for it, seek it out, be moved by it, be willing to stand in the rain for it. It has become a novelty, tinsel, trappings, white noise in the background of our lives. Sure, people still “like” music, but how many people “love” it anymore? Does music matter anymore? Does it have power?
I’d love for you all to tune in at 7-9 pm Thursday nights for my radio show (Roundtrip) on WNRB-LP. But I know very few of you will. Although it’s two hours of the best music you can hear on the radio at that time, and it really delivers deeper cuts and some of the most sublime moments in rock / blues / folk history, I know I’m one of few people (maybe the only one) listening who is truly transported by the experience.
Music … I’m immersed in it and am a product of it … but, at the same time, in a way, I miss it.
I will start with the comment on Malarkeys. It is the performers job to stop traffic, to stop the buzz. To get peoples attention. To put every eye on him.
For example, when Buddy Guy or BB King walk onstage, they demand that you look.
If Tyler is happy being background noise to the Manson insurance staff, then that is on him.
Well, Dino, you are right … I guess I touched on that in paragraph 7. Performing should equal entertaining should equal capturing and holding. That takes great ego and command and fearlessness. Think: Mick.
Music died when money became the main necessity for being heard instead of talent.
I am sorry, I really stopped reading with the statement about Lollapalooza. I think that moshing is an amazing connection to the very music. To the music itself. It is not an isolated occurance, music. It is interactive, and for many of us, the physical contact of the pit is essential in our appreciation of the music we choose to listen to. It is an interconnected, visceral act powered by music.
It is exactly what you seek. Music fans, touching one another, in partnership with music.
Well, I got past the rose colored stuff, and I agree with a lot of what you are saying. When I was in the Greaet Northern Blues Society, I created Blue Cafes that were musically challenging, and people resented them.
The 400 Block shows, well I think the intent in the selection of that music is the very thing that you are seeing. Maybe the intent of the organizers is not the concert, but the community.
It would be easy to say that it is the performers fault, and I think it is. I think that I know musicians that demand that you look at them. That demand you pay attention.
For example, take a look at the flying leap the Black Keys made with the new record. It is a giant leap, and many fans were left behind and resented it.
Or look at the first Buddy Guy tribute record made by Scott Holt…which has more connection to The Ramones than it does to Junior Wells. It still sold like hot cakes.
Are these two performers exceptions, sure.
Look at a band like Sunspot from Madison. Or Steepwater from Chicago. Both, bands have unique visions.
Maybe your cynicism is because your just not seeing the other things. Maybe your rose colored glasses are getting in the way of the greatness that is out there.
Even though it is rare these days.
“Radio has devolved into a blur of high-profile, classic rock “hit” formats”
I take exception to this statement. I listen to The Big Cheese (107.9) precisely because they play classic rock. I grew up on the stuff that they play and those songs bring back so many memories. I absolutely live for their retro America’s Top 40 from the 80′s on Sunday mornings. My 5yr old and I clean house while listening to songs from when mommy was in middle & high school. My daughter has speech delay and she now sings to the songs from my youth. There is no sweeter sound than her singing “We Will Rock You” while moving to the music. Or her mimicking me and running to the radio to turn it up while yelling “I YUV DIS SONG!!!” to a Bon Jovi hit she’s never heard in her life.
Don’t be dissin’ the classics or the stations that play them man. Just because I don’t seek out what you deem as the “best music you can hear on the radio at that time” doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy music. MY music has given me something I’ve been waiting 5 years for…a chance to hear my baby sing!
To say that our radio programmers ignore modern music, is an understatement. Just because you want ot head classic rock, does not make that the right or wrong choice. That is your preferance.
I thought radio used to turn me onto new music. Now, it like MTV has turned into some sad display of Carson Daly-isms.
You used to need to be into rock to be a radio guy, but I have met our radio guys…and they are not into music as a group.
Local musicians should be extrememly offended by our radio programming.
Also, why is it that Inner Sleeve is the only record store to have survived? I mean, yeah best buy sells cds, but you ask them a question…and they have no idea.
Target, ha. Wal Mart. Even worse.
Who can answer my music questions?
I expected this article to tickle some raw ends, because it touches on some personal issues.
Dino (Mr. Predictable) … you can romanticize moshing from your own point of view, but I see it as a denial of what’s REALLY GOING ON ON STAGE; it’s just an excuse to act out on beat (paraphrasing a 21-year-old who was at the recent Lollapalooza in Chicago, “It’s stupid.”). The Pit isn’t “touching” … it’s abusing and often harming other people in an act of mindless abandon. My 16-year-old gratefully retreated to a “safe distance” from this “partnership” you describe, where he lost a shoe and sunglasses, and his friend narrowly escaped a crushingly “good time.” Even Rage Against the Machine begged the crowd several times to chill out. But, of course, “moshers of the world unite!” To each his own. And, to be fair and historically accurate, moshing is not a hallowed product of the punk or post-punk era … it was born long before that in the music halls of Germany, Great Britain, and even the U.S. of the ’50s when rock rage was stoked by the likes of Bill Haley and Jerry Lee Lewis. Punkdom revived it and added a safety pin or two to the equation.
orkmommy … (love that handle!) … I like hearing the classic hits, too. But I also enjoy getting beyond them to another place where Queen is credited with more than 2 hits, Led Zeppelin has more than 4, Pink Floyd has more than 3. We’re being limited by commercial, corporate interests who reduce us to narrow demographic snippets and who don’t give us credit for having broader interests.
Tom you morose pickle – what – are you sad that summer’s almost over? There’s no question that most people rely heavily on over-played passively received music and that’s a shame because people need creativity – but that’s their problem and not yours…that’s what’s so great about all the arts – art fills in the cracks – it always rises to the aesthetic exigency…that’s the daily reckoning, to carve out a bit of space whereby one may develop his or her skills and talents…
I grew up on Queen, Led Zeppelin & Pink Floyd and am very aware that they have more than 2 or 3 hits each. What I like about main stream radio is that I get the opportunity to hear music I had either forgotten about or never heard, then I go buy the CD (or check out songs online and buy what I like). If it weren’t for radio, I probably would have missed out on some of my favorites!
p.s. Thanks for the shout out on the handle. My daughters initials are ORK and obviously I’m her mommy!
So I thought about this a bit, and I am going to say this…Tom I think your perception of moshing is totally incorrect, and its incorrect because you have not experienced it. You claim this wealth of experience, and as such yor curmudgeonly voice is respected, but in this case you are wrong.
I have been to more shows that involved moshing than you and your son combined, and I can say from first hand experience it is a direct connection to the music.
I took my 13 year old brother to a Rollins Band/Corrosion of Conformity show and left him in the able hands of a group of skinheads so I could go in the pit. He came away changed by seeing his big brother do that and come away smiling.
Older punk rockers for the most part feel compelled to pass along the etiquette to new generations. To make sure that what we chose to aspire to is safe for new kids.
Hence moments like sxdx Mike Ness calling the youngest punk rock child onstage at every show, and then the young person inevitably stage dives to complete and total safety. The whole time, the parents manage to allow this. And know their children will be safe.
I watched the Lolla pit from stage left, and in no way was it even aggressive. Rage and their corporate based rebellion made it important that they called out for safety.
As far as local musicians, they should be sickened. To get larger acts here requires musical support from radio, and radio here wants nothing to do with modern rock and roll, or even rock.
Hip Hop is the largest musical and cultural force in this country, by dollars and by impact. No hip hop is programmed here. It is a cultural force that is unparaleled. Yet it is not represented.
Why would a record label or management company send their artist here? No radio support, no retail, no nothing. This is not sour grapes, but I would not waste my artists time here. This is a city where we buy our cds at wal mart, not inner sleeve.
We have to have someone take a step. I thought the step was the Femmes last year, I thought that was a good opening step. But it reverted to Leann Rhimes. It returned to country, past its prime.
Who will walk forward first, radio or the people?
My “perception of moshing is totally incorrect”? Really? “Totally?”
Have you ever seen a Pit injury, Dino? Truthfully? Ever seen the intrusive groping of an unwary young girl? Ever felt the crush of ribs against a rail? Ever felt the air leave your chest and fear for your safety? Ever seen the blood and vacant eyes? Ever seen it turn into breakage? Maybe you’ve been lucky. Don’t romanticize this thing. It is what it is. If you like it, great. But to gild it is to ignore its nature.
Even having been in … and survived … the surge and bounce of crowds at ground level for the likes of X, Circle Jerks, Buzzcocks, Clash, Talking Heads, MC5, Iggy Pop, Wall of Voodoo … to name-drop a few, I still make no bones that you, Dino, likely have much more experience than I do in this genre and the hip-hop realm. But, to say I have not experienced the Pit is to talk without foundation. I’ve experienced it enough to know it’s not for me, and from my viewpoint, the people so engaged appear to be acting out in low-brow fashion. But, that’s their thing; I keep my distance from that brotherhood. On the other hand, friend Dino, I would duel you, tit for tat, with a mind-bending concert list that most (even you) would have a very hard time equaling and it has spanned about 40 years of attendance. It’s just that, for most of those events, moshing wasn’t much of a feature, thankfully. Don’t underestimate my experience Grasshopper, I’m a major dude.
Barry … I am devastated about the demise of summer. Aren’t you?
Almost afraid to pipe in on this increasingly heated debate. But a few thoughts.
Regardless of how connected moshers feel/felt…people should not feel personally endangered because some audience members feel that “the physical contact of the pit is essential in our appreciation of the music we choose to listen to. It is an interconnected, visceral act powered by music.” People should be able to stand near the stage without fear of being trampled. Period.
It’s fine if you enjoy whatever radio station you can. I get tired of hearing the same songs over and over, but that’s me. And I find that to be true for the classic rock, the oldies station, the “pop” station, all of them, even the satellite stations and ITune stations. There’s too much really good stuff that rarely or never hits the airwaves. Corporate control dictates what people hear, and I think that’s very sad. But it’s nothing new.
Heated … well, it’s good to know that music can evoke some passion, even today. But, going back to one of my initial assertions: I don’t think people for the most part are as music conscious and music centered as they have been in other times (not just my earlier times). I think that in the ’20s, popular music made everyday people rabid fans; the country was buzzing. In the ’30s, genres grew and morphed and helped people express the feelings of the Depression. In the 40s, every ear was glued to a radio for war news and a feeling of escape provided by the latest tunes from the giants of the day. In the ’50s, it went nuts with R&B and rockabilly and blues and rock and be-bop … and transistor radios. Chuck Berry wrote anthems that the whole country could sing together. In the ’60s it changed amazingly, as we all know. In the ’70s it mostly grew long hair and went into cruise control or swerved erratically in a sad show of rebellion. Since then, it has declined for the general populace (yes, it still serves the young and the cultish). But for the regular Joe, the people who maybe once cared, there seems little interest or motivation. And, hip hop, the “cultural force” is as corporate and formulaic and tired as it gets. Cultural farce. Just my opinion. But I’m curmudgeonly … i.e. older … and therefore totally wrong.
I really wanted to avoid this conversation for the most part, however I think that this:
“Corporate control dictates what people hear, and I think that’s very sad.”
Leads to this, for me:
“But for the regular Joe, the people who maybe once cared, there seems little interest or motivation.”
What is the solution, is my bigger question? Or, is there one?
The solution perhaps comes in the form of the pendulum, which always swings, however imperceptibly, until it returns inexorably.
I don’t know Dino. I think you can make the argument that since Boogie Down Productions started the rap wars with Juice Crew, it has been more about merchandising than music, or rather music made to eventually fuel merchandising.
I am a huge hip-hop fan too, but it is still about what they are wearing and not what they are saying.
Dino, in what year were you born? HH was born around 1970, I thought.
Some people think hip hop is an insulting and demeaning genre, and not vibrant at all. It’s all about perception and preference. Can something be vibrant and yet boring? I think so.
But, yes, local availability is a big issue, and probably this feeds my musical lament. Not just availability, but also support when it is made available. We’re pretty sleepy here. Not exactly an Austin of the north.
Ok, here goes. My four cents. Moshing to me is a way to express physically what you’re hearing. It creates an energy among those involved, and extends to the performer. From early slam dancing and circle pits to the dangerous Slayer death pits, it’s known the risk you take from feeling this kind of energy. Yes, Tom, I’ve seen injuries from pits, but i’ve also seen people pick each other up when they fall.
As far as radio, I don’t know what to say about the selection here. A while back 104.9 had a good format, but nobody listened, and it got changed. I don’t know.
And when you go to Malarkey’s, and I personally like it there, when Tyler is playing there is no cover charge. The crowd isn’t there for music. Same with the 400 block. To me it’s more of a community thing. But when you book a solid act and people pay to see it, eyes are stuck to the performer. It’s funny what $3 will do to your attention span.
Finally, I guess with hip-hop, how many people do you know that listen to rap or hip-hop don’t have a CD player in the car? Why would they listen to radio?
And it’s not a denial of what’s on stage…..I seem to recall a punk band from SF playing the pub, and when one of the sparse crowd members picked the singer up and carried him around on his shoulder, the band played that much harder.
Oh Alex you are so wrong. It has only recently become about what they are wearing.
Common…4 mics in the source, not about fashion
Dead Prez…3 mics, overtly political
Public Enemy…Not much has changed modern culture like the impact of Chuck D.
Go back to the early Def Jam roster…it was almost entirely about the lyrics, and the ability to battle.
You reference BDP…KRS One is known as the teacher. Is a faculty member at both Harvard and Yale.
LL Cool J has a 20 album career of being influential or at the very least current. How many rock bands have 20 albums, and have never really fallen out of the spotlight?
You look at the work of someone like MC Serch, someone who takes hip hop culture seriously, who does not play with it, who is passionate about it…and that is the same passion that Tom wants for rock and roll.
I consider myself to be a hip hop head. Mentzer is as well.
Kids and adults are passionate about music. I think this city is not. We opened a door with the Femmes, and quickly ran from that open door with a return to LeAnn Rimes again this year.
The 400 block shows are not made to be rock events, hell you do not even need to look at the stage.
The Noon shows as well.
And Matt…I have paid to see bands, and god knows they gave me nothing to look at.
What is the differance between the lame blues band Matt, and Howard?
The show Matt is talking about was in my rather serious opinion, the highest energy rock show wausau has ever seen.
And Matt made it happen.
Also…look at the attendance at shows like Bitter Taste of Therapy…the big rock shows Beyond Therapy booked. Massive crowds. Huge reaction. Passion.
Look at the shows Planet of 9 did at the Elks lodge. Huge crowds, passion.
There has been attempts made to have rock shows. But the rooms that are perfect for it, will not let people try anymore.
These shows existed, were created, were inspiring. So to blanketly paint wausau as do nothing is not right. Things have been done.
Hell ALvin Youngblood Hart played Blues Cafe, and I got a year of crap for it.
It’s not a blanket statement Dino.
I just think somewhere between AB and Scenario with BR people started selling out.
Tom, what is wrong with aural wallpaper? Why SHOULDN’T music be a sort of social lubricant that brings people together, allows them a space or an occasion for social interactions ranging from chatting to dancing to moshing? Are you absolutely sure that this devalues the music itself? Because I know a lot of musicians who believe this is the MAIN POINT of the music they make…
But besides that, isn’t there something very, I don’t know, solipsistic or something about your insistence that nobody else in the world quite GETS music the way you do? “I’m one of few people (maybe the only one) listening who is truly transported by the experience”? How can you possibly know whether or not that’s true?
I wasn’t saying that a cover makes a band good, it just forces people to pay more attention. It wasn’t a well-written statement.
I think i proudly avoided the solipsism.
Rob,
Touche … got me most assuredly. I don’t buy much into the “we’re making aural wallpaper” (ooh, so Eno ambient) argument, but I certain;y displayed some elitist attitude about what’s good and what ain’t. Of course, I never said anything about the “whole world.” So, don’t get all universal on me; I was just talking about the potential Wausau audience. But, I always hope there are people “out there” enjoying themselves as much as I am. Make sense?
Wausau, the “whole world” — semantics! But I hear what you are saying and I agree that it’s less elitist your way, talking about a specific audience rather than everybody everywhere.
I’ll just note that Eno ambient, while a fine example, is far from the only kind of music that is intentionally made to be part of a social setting rather than the full focus of attention. Lots of rappers make (great) songs with the club in mind, many DJs and electronic musicians think of the dancefloor first, and no small number of rock bands, jazz trios and so on play in noisy bars and in the background of parties and what have you.
The point is that sitting in a room with headphones on and your eyes closed, or other forms of listening with 100 percent of your attention, is far from the only way to enjoy music. In fact that sort of total-immersion-listening is the anomaly, and music as a social function is the norm.
So my argument is that listening to music while enjoying a social relationship by dancing or chatting or whatever doesn’t necessarily devalue the music and is actually a perfectly good and noble and natural purpose for music to serve. You can argue that it doesn’t constitute FULL appreciation, but then we’re going back down that road where we are judging the authenticity of someone else’s experience, which we prefer not to do…
Now, I’m all in favor of aural wallpaper by and large, but this is a historic issue and one that is not just confined to the rock/rap/hip-hop/metal/country genres. (Get ready for the “and one time, at band camp…” moment…)
What about the symphony? I saw Nigel Kennedy (back when he still had two names) do Vivaldi’s Four Seasons with the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra. He conducted the orchestra as well as playing the solo parts. Between each movement, he would do a jazz interpretation on each season with a bass and piano. It was revolutionary, especially when you consider that Baroque figured bass really was the advent of jazz but you really never hear an established symphony orchestra do jazz, even third stream.
This concert rocked my world. I stumbled out of my seat to get some air. But in the lobby at intermission, all I saw were overdressed society mavens and their escorts, sipping at their mimosas and discussing the next fundraising event, their grown children’s escapades, their gardening troubles. Not the music. They could have cared less about it, but a big-name performer gave them a chance to be seen. They used the concert as a way to show their support for the arts and to kibbitz with their other “socially minded” friends.
Yes, Rob, I agree that music should be social. It needs to be shared and discussed and validated. But I don’t think that music should just be a social lubricant or a chance to show “support” for a “worthy cause.” There has to be balance.
You’re all old and scabby…there’s plenty of great music everywhere…if you don’t think so pick up an instrument and show the world how it’s done….
The view of a truly awesome young person…
http://lastsummerhero.wordpress.com/
[...] Wausau, where, right there on the front page, demanding my attention, was a headline that read ‘Who Wants To Listen Anymore?‘ The author, Tom Neal, goes on to explain how, at shows, people prefer to hang out and talk [...]
‘go shut this old man up’
Wow, so this is the place to come to take part in the open exchange of ideas.
That’s really great.
Well, I think I found someone with less to say than I do on here…..Barry, we’re not old and scabby. Don’t generalize. I’m only 26 and have picked up a guitar more times than you’ve heard one, and was playing piano before you were born. That should tell you that there are musicians here, and if you had read Tom’s post in length, you would know that he to plays guitar, but not for the world. As far as your post on lastsummerhero, it seems to me that the only shows you’ve been to are small all-ages shows, and that’s fine. But what Tom was talking about was the over-21 crowd standing and talking amongst themselves with live music going on in a bar. Two different things.
And I’m not scabby.
In Barry’s defense, he’s not “lastsummerhero” … I don’t know (or care) who that might be, but know it’s not Barry. (If only because I know Barry is a tad older than 18!)
I came to this party way too late.
And yeah, Barry is well older than 26 too, Matt. So I don’t know what crazy quantum physics you’re using to play piano before he was born.
I’ll just say a couple of quick things:
Music, like anything, is never as cool when you first open up the world of it as it is today. You’ll never have that feeling of “holy shit, look at this world I had no idea about… and it’s amazing” ever again.
To say that people don’t dig music in the same way today as they did back decades ago is accurate. To say that they don’t dig it as much is very generational-centric. Go to the average college campus or even high school and see how many ear buds are in ears. Check out YouTube for massive amounts of amateur artists that just set-up a camera and play song… and see the crazy amounts of hits they have.
Moshing is a form of appreciating music. To dismiss moshing based on the people that do it wrong: that is just to hurt their fellow human beings, to be disrespectful, etc is to dismiss driving based on accidents. As an ambulance chasing news photographer I’ve seen infants that have been run over by tires, pools of blood underneath twisted hunks of metal… I can bring out horror stories, Tom, about driving just like you can about moshing. But I won’t say therefore driving it bad. Accidents are bad.
Radio, as a medium, has changed dramatically. Especially as television and the internet has taken away much of its revenue compared to decades ago. Again, this is not a decline of music, this is a change of a medium. Radio no longer transports you on a musical journey because it isn’t produced in the same way. Music is still completely capable of that.
Listen to Howl by Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3 by Coheed and Cambria, Fever to Tell by The Yeah Yeah Yeahs… these are commercially successful releases that came out in the last five years from bands that are barely a decade old if that. There is amazing music right now and just because the mode of its delivery, appreciate as an art has changed, doesn’t make it any less powerful.
Well, I guess I made that assumption by the post previous to the link Dino sent, and not knowing who Barry is, that’s why I said that. So maybe I haven’t been playing piano longer, but the rest of it is valid. This is why I hate posting stuff.
Schwein!!!
Ich bin der uber-lehrer! Our paths will cross soon enough Mohawk Matt – Anyway, I saw this band last Friday – it was a blues band out of Madison that came up to Wausau for a private party – they were freak rippers…freak…
Opinions are like… Well, everybody has one…
Copperbox rocks!!!
When I was young…long, long ago….music was the driving force in my teenage everyday life (as it is in ALL teenage lives)….it was sustenance…it energized my soul…it defined my feelings….it defined ME! And every summer Sunday morning I would climb into my dad’s little English convertible with my parents and we would take a leisurely family drive up north or down south or wherever..…2 or 3 hour drive…typical Sunday activity….and my dad would then do the unthinkable…something so horrendous it made me want to DIE…he’d turn on the polka station, and that’s where the radio would remain for what seemed like ETERNITY. Let me tell ya….a mosh pit is nuthin’ compared to 3 hours of polkas. Top that music-related horror story!
OWC – get with the program. Polka is cool. Polka bands, like bluegrass and Klezmer saw a big revival on the East Coast about 5 years ago (NYC, Baltimore and The Jersey Shore). Hell, without Klezmer we would never heard the likes of Benny Goodman or Artie Shaw. Open your mind – Polka music is good music. There is a reason why Polka music is popular. Played well, it’s got a lot of energy. To be frank I used to hate it too – listening to Howey Sturts (sp?) on Channel 7 used to bore me to death. But good Polka like any other music played with conviction is worth a listen. Don’t be a snob – broaden your mind.
OH, I forgot to mention that the roots for Texas Swing come from the German and Polish immigrants that settled in Texas. Have a listen to the Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys – can’t miss the Polka beat. I’ve heard this tune on juke boxes from one end of this country to the other.
http://www.last.fm/music/Bob%2BWills%2B%2526%2BHis%2BTexas%2BPlayboys/Classic+Western+Swing/Take+Me+Back+To+Tulsa
Bob Wills, “Take me back to Tulsa” this link has the autostart added (I hope):
http://www.last.fm/music/Bob%2BWills%2B%2526%2BHis%2BTexas%2BPlayboys/_/Take+Me+Back+To+Tulsa?autostart
Kid: I remember Howie Sturtz! I agree that polka has it’s place & if someone enjoys that brand of music, that’s great! And I have danced many a polka in my time, and am not half bad at it. However, like lima beans & buttermilk, having it forced upon me as a kid, a taste for it now will never develop.
Now I remember! Howie Sturtz played on Dairyland Jubilee…actually went on the program to polka once when I was a kid. They served free milk.
My, oh, my. I go on a one-day business trip and this thread won’t die. Some people actually responded to my original post. One seemed to be quoting me with things I never wrote. One claimed that another instructed her to shut me up. She hasn’t.
Let’s talk about arrogance:
The arrogance of ageism.
The arrogance of the old that think their day and their way was better and expect others to understand and accept that.
The arrogance of the young that think the old are irrelevant … and totally wrong … and should just shut up; and that there is no basis for critiquing the young.
The arrogance of saying anyone is “totally wrong.”
The arrogance of ignoring or discounting certain uncomfortable facts that don’t jibe with your cultural or world view.
The arrogance of the moshers who believe that the up-front area at a concert rightfully “belongs” to them, and not to anyone else who might have showed up early and wanted to get close to their favorite guitarist and watch their fingers move on the fretboard to learn a thing or two. Why not mosh in the rear? “What, us? No way! This is our house!”
The arrogance of the stranger that gropes, pushes or knocks down another stranger and thinks “the moment” makes it okay to do that, because there’s a nihilistic pack-mentality thing going on and if you don’t like it, just go away. Stay away old people. Stay away younger people. This is OUR SPOT!
The arrogance of the crowd that won’t give the performer his/her due.
The arrogance of performers who phone it in and expect to be applauded.
The arrogance of asserting that one’s own taste is better or more sophisticated than other people’s.
The arrogance of assuming things about people without basing it in actual knowledge and fact.
The arrogance of assigning oneself the role of arbiter of what is of value and what isn’t.
I can see the various instances where my arrogance has come into play in this thread.
Can anyone else see the same about themselves?
In closing, I remain a lover of music. I love hearing it, watching it being performed and playing it myself. I’ve enjoyed many a wonderful crowd experience, seeing some of the biggest names ever. The Stones in the driving rain, Hendrix in the morning, the Who at dawn, the Dead in a Texas field, Stevie Ray in a nightclub with Dr. John on keyboards, REM in a Dallas dive before they were anybody, Frank Zappa and the Mothers creating something indescribably rich, hundreds of shows across many years … right up to today (Counting Crows next week). And when I can, I pay attention. And I stand or sit rapt and fulfilled. Sometimes frustrated. But I don’t need to hit anybody to make it better. And I don’t need to make it all about me. Let me not like moshing. Let me have my opinion about what I’ve seen and experienced myself. Have your own opinion, too, based on what you know.
But no amount of glory tales about the brother and sisterhood of the Pit will ever convince me that this is not a strange, aberrant and devolved form of expressing musical appreciation. And, it’s not about age or the most recent generations. (As I wrote earlier, people were smashing themselves and things around to the strains of rock long before many of this thread’s contributors were born. I’ve heard similar opinions about the stupidity of the Pit expressed by young teens, people in their 30s and otherwise. It’s not about age, it’s about comportment and respect.
In my opinion, rock credentials aren’t bought and paid for in the Pit. It’s no right of passage. It’s no special brotherhood. It’s the few bullying the many. It’s the creation of a zone where others enter at their peril. It is a place at odds with my world and cultural view. I don’t go there. And, as a result, I am excluded from the front … where I’ve always enjoyed being. Thank you so much for that, oh great mosh crew!
And as long as CitizenWausau is here, nobody is shutting up the old man. You don’t want to mess with the old man. I know too much. And I’m crotchety and don’t care if you think I’m irrelevant or totally wrong. You can’t touch this.
On the flip side(pun intended)and all arguments aside, find me more than a handful of blog sites, in which one has to look up more than five words in the comment section(at least for guys for me).
That says volumes about the awesomeness known as “Citizen Wausau.”
Tom,
“He has conceived meanly of the resources of man, who believes that the best age of production is past.” (389)
Emerson, Ralph Waldo. Art (375- 396). Emerson’s Essays: First Volume. American Classics Series. (1844).
Barry …. not sure if you’re directing Ralph at me personally. But, I don’t think I claimed anything about the best age of production being past. There remains today great “production,” but my musings were more on the subject of, “is the best age of appreciation past?” The whole question was: Does anyone care to listen anymore? And, I think it’s been pointed out well by Erik that, yes, people listen (i.e. omnipresent ear buds, YouTube). I just hate seeing empty seats at concerts, and it dismays me to see concert-goers who are more interested in themselves than the concert. Of course, I accept the role of the background performer in a bar or even maybe a 400 Block show. Seeing Counting Crows next week … lots of stage presence and people pay attention, so I’m probably full of crap and just wishing our own little neck of the woods was more groovy.
groovy sucks