Words
Lately, I find myself grasping for meaning. What does this or that word really mean now? I mean, in today’s parlance, what do we mean, deep down, when we use certain loaded or supercharged words — words that might have meant something different a century ago, decades ago, seven years ago? Words twist and spin and reverse direction, taking on new identities and powers. Like, at what precise point in our history was “cheap” dropped in favor of “inexpensive”? Cheap used to be a good thing. Words.
1. On the self-image front, in your opinion, what is a liberal and what is a conservative? Now, careful here. I don’t care about tax-and-spend versus small government … that’s politics. I’m talking about just plain old people and how they see themselves. You. Your friends. People you know. When someone says “I’m a conservative” or “I’m a liberal,” what are they saying? What comes with each package? Were the definitions the same in say, 1900?
2. On the civic involvement front, what is an activist and what is a supporter? Tell me if you think there’s a difference in the sense that the terms are used in news reports and speeches.
3. On the musical front, what is classic rock? When did it start? When did it end? Is it the same as “old school”?
4. In the same vein, what is classical music? Specifically. Says who? Does Frank Zappa qualify?
5. Do you carry a “cell” or a “mobile”? Which is better? Do they still make “cellular” phones?
6. I hear a lot about the “environment” these days, but nobody seems to say “ecology” anymore. What happened?
7. What or who is “emo”? A Muppet?
8. Do you invite someone over for “drinks” or “libations”?
9. I’ve heard there’s an “American culture” … what is it? I sure don’t know.
10. What words can you think of that are sort of weird when you think about them?
Mohawk Matt said:
1. I’m neither. I hate these two labels, as I support the death penalty but also pro-choice. (If you can kill one, might as well kill the other) (Was that bad?)
2. I support activists. Kind of like an army, you need support for the front line troops. Supply trains, engineers, and of course a good Naval presence.
3. That’s defined by the listener. I have classic punk albums. Some from the mid-nineties. I have classic rock albums. Some from the fifties.
4. Music during the classic age. The seventies.
5. It’s a phone. I call people. They call me. End of story.
6. I once read a book entitled “The Ecology of Moss”
7. If emo is a muppet, then sorry Mr. Henson, but I beat up one of your creations.
8. I don’t invite people. They just come.
9. Look around, Tom. Just look around.
10. Bomb, Comb, and Tomb. Why the hell don’t these rhyme?
September 5th, 2008 at 11:47 am #
Jane Neal said:
1. I consider myself to be a bleeding heart, but have been told that in some ways, I am quite conservative.
2. I think activists are more active. Supporters are like bras…or jock straps.
3. For cars, anything over 20 years is a classic. Is that true for rock? Why not?
4. I always think of classical music as more Mozart or Debussy than Zappa.
5. I carry a cel, because I’m trying to cut down on my letters.
6. I’ve always liked that Marvin Gaye song, “Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology Song)”
7. Elmo is a muppet. So is Grover.
8. I invite people over to drink … on the porch. But yeah, sometimes they just show up…maybe they can smell the alcohol.
9. I’m stumped. Think this might be an oxymoron?
10. cough, rough, through, thorough and plough. But I really like the word “flummoxed.”
September 5th, 2008 at 12:45 pm #
amongthecows said:
1. I find the easiest way to understand the difference between conservatives and liberals is to insert the term ‘socially’ as a modifier. It is much easier to understand “what comes with each package” when you refer to someone as being socially conservative or socially liberal. Even if we try to deny it, our perceptions of what constitutes good governance stems more from our cultural biases and, unfortunately, less from an empirical understanding of what policy or politic would best represent the majority of the citizenry.
That said, socially conservative folks tend to be driven by religious ideology and religious ideology tends toward a perception that there is one definable truth. When an individual makes socially relevant decisions (i.e. political) based a foundation of righteousness there is much less room for discussion and/or compromise on public policy: hence the standard conservative agenda.
On the other hand, socially liberal individuals are more inclined to a pluralistic worldview and usually want to see their government responsive to needs of society at large and are more willing to come to a compromise even if it will not directly benefit them.
2. Activists are willing to pitch in and get their hands dirty and supporters may agree but are passive in terms of their involvement. The devil is in the details.
3. Straight from Wikipedia: Classic rock was originally conceived as a radio station programming format which evolved from the album oriented rock (AOR) format in the early-1980s.
In my humble opinion, we should reserve the term “old school” for punk and hip-hop.
4. Classical Music is much more well-defined by specific periods and styles. So no, Zappa does not qualify. This is akin to the concept of Modernism in art and design which, when correctly used, refers to style and period. This term is often used incorrectly to describe contemporary work.
5. One and the same. Your Cellular telephone is a mobile device; your mobile phone is a cellular device. And yes, even the new fancy iPhones etc are cellular phones (just using a different frequency.)
6. Ecology is the subdivision of biology concerned with the relationships between organisms and their environment (the physical realm of existence.) The political use of the term ‘environment’ is vague enough to both engage and repel people from all walks of life. BTW: I would argue that the only environment most people are concerned with is ours. The planet will shed us like dead skin cells and just keep spinning through space (with or without us.) You’d think more people could get behind the idea of preserving our ability to survive.
7. Considering that Emo, as a musical genre, was born from hardcore punk, one would think that someone who chooses a moniker like “Mohawk Matt” would be a little cooler about it. And like Jane said, “Elmo is [the] Muppet.”
8. Libations are more ceremonial. It’s like pouring some out for your dead homiez. Drinks are for hanging out or getting lucky.
9. I think that topic might be a little thick to try and hash out here. Perhaps, you should invite some friends over for drinks (see above), discuss and report back.
10. Almost all words are weird when you think about them. I think most kids go through a period when they repeat words over-and-over until they no longer hold their meaning and regain their phonetic quality.
But I will throw Pogonotrophy into the mix. It means: To grow a beard.
September 5th, 2008 at 2:56 pm #
Mohawk Matt said:
Hmm…a little bit cooler? In what respect? That I should know what it means (because I do) or that I shouldn’t have beaten up some emo kids? And no, it didn’t come from hardcore punk. These ‘emotional hardcore’ losers wouldn’t have lasted 15 minutes at a Minor Threat show, let alone a Black Flag, SSD, Bad Brains or SOA show. They’d be too busy hiding behind their hair.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:24 am #
amongthecows said:
MM: I wasn’t questioning your knowledge of the genre but now that you insist that “[Emo] didn’t come from hardcore punk.” I think I will. And since I have lasted through twenty plus years of hardcore shows (including Minor Threat and Bad Brains), I would caution you against such an egotistical view of music. Just because you don’t think “emo kids” are cool doesn’t make them any less relevant.
You sound a lot like the rednecks that wanted to beat up my friends and I when we were younger because we didn’t see the value in Motley Crue or Judas Priest. (Yet, I don’t think they were quite ready to have a legitimate discussion about the influence Black Sabbath had on Jane’s Addiction.) But I digress.
During the into to Prison Bound on the Live at the Roxy record, Mike Ness Relates a story about getting harassed back in the day. I think you should listen to it and realize that you are acting like the frat boys he’s referring to.
The kids are alright.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:14 pm #
robertmentzer said:
1. It’s also possible for someone who advocates liberal public policies to be completely conservative/traditional in their personal life. And as we’ve seen from a range of political scandals and pseudoscandals, it is definitely possible to live a liberal (or libertine!) personal life while advocating conservative policies.
3. I think classic rock is defined as music made by white people from Sgt. Pepper’s until the first Clash album.
4. Classical music is very old music with, you know, violins and shit. Maybe Frank Zappa is neoclassical or something.
7. Today, emo is defined as power pop made by people with tattoos.
September 6th, 2008 at 12:56 pm #
Dino Corvino said:
Cow…It appears that the sort of elitist tribalism that made old guys like you and I take punches, has not led to people punching each other over labels.
The act of looking down ones nose, or being the arbiter of what is or is not this or that, well that seems antithetical to just about any real ground level movement. I think that any of the discussions that isolate something as real punk, or real hip hop, or real country, or real this or that, all have roots in shallow soil.
I find it more like talking to a high school gym teacher, or school police liason when I hear talk like this.
I think of Mr. Crump, and Officer Beck.
September 6th, 2008 at 10:52 pm #
Dino Corvino said:
To get to the questions…
1. I go with this…conservatives say no, liberals say yes. There are times, when I think about the history I have read, and think that to be conservative…maybe the John Muir sort of way is good, then I listen to those that talk who are claiming the conservative set. OG’s like Rush. And I want nothing to do with it.
2. Activists use wrenches and shovels and hammers and nails. Supporters write checks.
3. I have no idea. Anything before The Stooges albume FUNHOUSE which is the greatest record ever made in my opinion.
4. zzzz….what? what were you saying.
5. I carry a cell.
6. I will fall back on, people might be stupid enough to destroy the planet and everyone on it just to prove some sort of point. Rather than recycle aluminums cans and try solar power, they would rather complain that they should not be told what to do…I am sorry, what were you asking.
7. In an effort to not sound like an elitist old man, I am going to have respect for people who indentify with that to not speak for them.
8. No.
9. Its in the mirror.
10. Curd. I think of Tony Hanke and I talking about it in a car for hours. Drugs are really something.
September 6th, 2008 at 11:04 pm #
Cheryl Mathis said:
1. I have no insight on the etymology of the terms.
2. I’m with Dino about the supporter writing the check. The activist carries signs and goes door to door.
3. Classic rock, for me, began sometime in the late sixties. Now, it’s become a genre like hip-hop or pop. I hear some new songs on the radio, and I say they are classic rock, but they are new. It’s the sound of the electric guitars and heavy drums and the emotion behind it, I guess. But that’s all just me. I know nothing about music.
4. Classical music is anything that relies on the composing styles of the old guys like Bach, Brahms and Beethoven, has no real vocals to speak of, and is played on instruments like violins and violas, pianos and horns. The definition is getting fuzzier and fuzzier.
5. I want to start calling them “pocket phones.”
6. I think of environment as a term for the climate around us, ecology for the science behind it that describes its functions.
7. Emo is a style of music that can be seen in other cultural aspects like dress, make-up, hair and social manner. Elmo is the muppet, and he’s adorable.
8. I do neither, unless we are talking about water and orange soda.
9. Of course there is. It just “is.” And we need only look around, or go oversees and notice the differences.
10. Titillate. Excrement. Love. Alacrity. Barrage. Organs.
September 7th, 2008 at 6:03 am #
Mohawk Matt said:
Live at the Roxy? That’s really funny. And me acting like a redneck that Mike Ness refers to? Even funnier. But when you take something like emo, put some make-up on a kid and tell him to sing about relationships and how bad his life is, it doesn’t show any roots in hardcore punk that was about drinking, smack habits, anti-government, getting beaten up by police, mass murderers, and unity. There has always been rifts between genres, including but not exclusive to punk. You talk about Mike Ness, who should be a poster boy for emo. He got his ass kicked by the guys from Agnostic Front while in New York for throwing a bottle at Roger Miret. Roger didn’t know who the hell Mike was, and probably still doesn’t care about what country album Mike is making nowadays. You put an emo kid into a crowd at an Exploited show and they would tear him apart. Maybe for trying to rip off the real “emotional” side of music. Most likely just for being lame.
September 7th, 2008 at 12:55 pm #
Dino Corvino said:
I think about the cycle of domestic abuse of many kinds. Many children of abusers, many victims, become victimizers.
I think this is very common in punk rock.
Tribalism and cycles of abuse.
September 7th, 2008 at 2:35 pm #
Mohawk Matt said:
But that’s what makes it fun.
September 7th, 2008 at 4:54 pm #
robertmentzer said:
Matt, how is advocating for the death penalty square with being “anti-government”? Who do you think is determining who gets the death penalty…?
September 7th, 2008 at 8:20 pm #
oldwoodchair said:
Ahh, words…different things to different people.
1. I think I’m best described as a Libservative. I’m liberal in many opinions, but a no-nonsense conservative in others. In the past (like the 1900s) maybe it meant “tough crap if you’re in need” if you were a conservative and “the government should help you even if you did screw up your own life” if your were a liberal. Not sure because I lived very much in my own little world when I was young. (OK, I’m not THAT old…but you know what I mean.)
2. I’m a supporter for Obama in that I’ve written a check. I’m considering becomming an activist in volunteering to try to convince people that my beliefs are right. That’s the difference. Supporters support, activists act.
3. Classic rock is whatever they play on the Classic Rock station…and I accept that they know music better than I do. I usually listen to the classical station. Which brings me to the next question.
4. Classical music to me is stuff written by old guys for kings & queens to listen to while they crossed rivers and entered grand ballrooms and such. No lyrics. Everytime I hear Canon, in any form, I weep.
5. Yes, I carry a cellular phone but we don’t have time to say the entire word so we just call it a “cell”. It’s like instead of saying “oh my God” we just say “OMG” now because we need to hurry and do everyting faster.
6. Probably because ecology is global & environment is personal…our personal environment…which is what we are most concerned with. (Do I sound bitter and hopeless tonight?)
7. I don’t have a clue on this one…guess I’m too old to even get that this is a question. I do know Elmo the muppet…and Elmo is also my cat.
8. If I invited my friends over for libations they’d think I was going to have rubber gloves on and do some kind of a medical test on them. Course, my friends would probably come anyway.
9. There sure is. It’s “me, me, me” and “It’s not my fault”.
10. Sorry if this is gross, but I’ve always thought hemorroids and asteroids should be reversed (hemisphere & ass). Also, I could never live on Fleming Street.
September 7th, 2008 at 9:32 pm #
Tom Neal said:
Fleming Street … that slayed me!!
Poor Flanders (a sort of country in western Europe) whose people are sadly referred to as Flemish or Flemings, and even the once-distinguished name of their country is now ruined because of the evangi-dweeb neighbor on The Simpsons.
This opens a whole new possible line of inquiry: very funny names. I once knew a Joy Graves.
September 8th, 2008 at 8:51 am #
Mohawk Matt said:
I determine who gets the death penalty. And I didn’t at any time state I was anti-government.
September 8th, 2008 at 9:48 am #
robertmentzer said:
Well, that clears that right up then! I guess I thought you were identifying yourself with “hardcore punk that was about drinking, smack habits, anti-government, getting beaten up by police” and so on. That was a misreading by me. Next you’re going to say you don’t endorse smack habits, either!
September 8th, 2008 at 10:01 am #
erik said:
1. Conservatives tend to see themselves as rational, self-made and moral. Liberals tend to see themselves as revolutionary, community minded and forward thinking. I think this is what you’re asking for, but judging by the other responses maybe I read the question wrong!
2. I honestly haven’t seen the Orwellian word play you’re alluding to with these two terms.
3. Classic rock goes from Buddy Holly until Ratt came out with Round and Round.
4. The Classical Period goes from early 1700’s to early 1800’s if that helps?
5. Whatever I have, I call it a cell phone.
6. Ecology supported Ralph Nader and we all know what Democrats do to those people.
7. Emo has become the counter-culture of a new generation. Much like the goth movement of the previous one, or going all the way back to punks in the 70’s. And yes, Emo was born out of the hardcore scene of the late 80’s, just because they don’t have the same “cool” factor that punk rock does, doesn’t mean they don’t have a lot in common.
8. I invite them over to play Wii.
9. Hamburgers, cowboys, NASCAR and beef jerky appear to be what most other countries think of when they make American restaurants so I’ll go with that. Oh and guns.
10. Any word starts sounding really weird if you just say it over and over again.
September 8th, 2008 at 10:13 am #
Tom Neal said:
erik, very concise treatment for #1. good job.
re: #2: I may be paranoid or at least over-sensitive, but for quite a while I’ve sensed this undercurrent or sneaky implication often being made when a person is referred to as an activist. For example, even the most involved NRA proponent tends to be called a supporter or member of the pro-gun lobby. But if someone supports legislation to register firearms then they’re a gun control activist. There’s pro-life supporters and pro-choice activists. It’s as though activists are on the left, and supporters are on the right. Look at all the recent references to “activist” judges … you know, the ones who make decisions conservatives don’t agree with. But is a right wing evangelical judge who wants to overturn Roe v Wade ever referred to as an activist judge? No, he or she is just a conservative judge.
Activists cause trouble. Supporters are upstanding individuals. Supporters dress nicer and have nicer hair.
September 8th, 2008 at 11:18 am #
Mohawk Matt said:
That’s where you’re wrong, Rob. I do endorse smack habits. I have several myself, and if you’d like, I can hook you up.
Also, I might as well put this out there because obviously I have no clue what I’m talking about, what bands are being considered “Emo” here?
And what about Emo Phillips? Where is he in all of this?
September 8th, 2008 at 11:19 am #
timothyp said:
1. My father always said ” A liberal looks for light at the end of the tunnel, a conservative wants to charge people for using the tunnel.” In many ways, he was right.
2. I really don’t see much of a difference.
3. Classic rock (not pop, R&B, soul) to me began when some unknown electric guitarist started playing lead melodies and solos within a song instead of being included in the rhthym section. It ended today… what I mean is when someone hears a rock song today, it will inevitably become a “classic” years from now.
4. Classical music to me is when electricity was not yet invented.
5. I have a cell phone. I do not carry that cell phone unless I HAVE to.
6. “Ecology is the subdivision of biology concerned with the relationships between organisms and their environment (the physical realm of existence.) The political use of the term ‘environment’ is vague enough to both engage and repel people from all walks of life. BTW: I would argue that the only environment most people are concerned with is ours. The planet will shed us like dead skin cells and just keep spinning through space (with or without us.) You’d think more people could get behind the idea of preserving our ability to survive.” That pretty much covers it for me too. Thanks,amongthecows.
7. Tell you the truth, I’ve been around music in one way or another for almost all of my life and I’ve never figured out what “emo” is supposed to mean. My best guess would be emotional music….listened to mostly college students and high schoolers that think they have been dealt a terrible hand by life. As far as the punk and emo connection, there is a difference in my mind…. punk was aggresive and feral as where emo is more whiny and passive. Punk was “I’m gonna kick your ass” emo is more like “I’m going to cut myself”
8. Neither, I seldom have alcohol in my home.
9. No such animal.
10. Government representation, counter intelligence, Jumbo anything, any consumer product “Free!”, working vacations. Funny words to me are rutabaga, whizz as in take a…, otomotopia, frankly and cyclone. Have to include zydeco too.
September 9th, 2008 at 12:17 pm #