This week Citizen Wausau explores the considered updates to Wausau’s City Square on the 400 Block. For your reference, have a look at these plans. They are not final, but they give a good idea of what is to come.
One of the joys of being a small town fighting its big town future, is we still have interesting little pockets of personality that have tremendous influence. Whether it be Janet Herring and her ad hoc ‘committee’ trying to band teenagers and skateboards from downtown, to the guy who wants electric cars, to the small group of insiders who want 400 Block redesign.
It is an amazing time for Wausau. The economy is in the tank in this country, local dude John Noell got a little of the bailout money, factories are closing, local cultural icons are being led by bad business people…and the city wants to spend a half of a million on a park.
The position has been taken that this money is needed for tourism improvement, and then that position was further explained away. For a while I read that this was State of Wisconsin money, but that appears to not be the case now. This appears to be money that the city is CHOOSING to spend on the block.
If you read the WDH, or even worse, the WDH forum, you see the amount of vocal dissent about this very issue. While I am not one to hold up the wisdom of mobs, at a certain point the mob is telling you to stop this process. To save the money. No one is upset with current layout of the park. No one has been vocal about NEEDING to change it. Yet we have a push from a very small group of people, and alderpersons who want this to go through.
It has become a cult of personality. We have read extensively from Councilman Rosenberg talking about how it will be like a Parisian park, and it will only grow the city. How it is better to fix something before it breaks. How the people who are saying no, just simply do not understand urban planning. All valid, if somewhat argumentative from an elected official.
So right now the 400 Block is the place where The City Pages/Wausau Area Events concerts draw thousands of people each week. The farmers market draws a giant amount of vendors now, and hundreds of people to buy…wait for it…produce. The balloon thing is so pretty. Those dogs and the Frisbees, pretty cool. It is also a place to sit during the day, to sit in the grass and just sort of let it go during the day.
Yet we choose to change it. We choose to go against the will of the people once again. Our elected officials have sought to, and continue to seek to thumb their nose at the people by doing something people do not want. Recently the people were vocal about the 8 Million dollar pool rehab or something, and it went away. At what point will this stop. It seems every few months these folks try to push this through.
We choose to add trees, which diminish space so less people can come to events. We choose to add concrete structures; once again less people can come to events. We seek to put what appears to be a water fountain in front of the stage, because not only is that limiting space, adding water to electrical instruments is a bad idea.
In 2008 we have no money as a country. Wausau is part of that country. We need to conserve our resources. Let us not spend money on something like this now. A strong enough case has not been made, the design is not available to the public on the cities website, the people have no idea what is going on. Make this discussion public, at the very least embrace your City Council plank of transparency, and show us the plans. Bring in real voices of change on this like Jim O’Connell, or Leah Alters, or Tammy Stezinski from the City Pages. Bring in event planners through out the state to give testimony on the idea of what the plan is now, versus what you want to make it.
More than that though, let this idea be in response to the needs of the people. The people are everyone, not just people we share drinks with at Loppnows, or at the Golf Club. Let us not be lobbied by the people who do not use the space, but you know socially. Let yourselves hear the voices of everyone.
In my opinion, Concerts on the Square have outgrown the 400 Block. Not once this summer did I get there early enough for a spot to sit. Let’s move the concerts to the huge expanse of green space by the river near the Isle of Ferns. If you displace the concerts, a lot of the arguments are pretty easy to beat down. The cost will be less because we won’t need a concrete bandstand. We can still add trees (for shade, especially in the patio area) and interest. We can add short boundary walls to define the space in some areas without losing the square frontage for a farmers market.
I wonder what the cost would be without the stage?
I think that this is an amazing point. One that I had not considered.
I also think this comment gets at the fact that this discussion is ONCE AGAIN, not being had with the people. Cheryl made some suggestions, but how can she make them officially? There are no comment sections on the city website. Who can she talk to about this plan?
It appears no one.
Take away the concerts, and most of the people that go to the 400 block won’t be there. So why improve it if the concerts aren’t there?
According to WDH … something like $274K from room tax money, and remainder from private contributors. It’s not that much money if spread across a couple years at least. Wausau needs to invest in itself, particularly when other, competing towns aren’t.
More important is the design itself. The details of the design … not the fact that there is a design. The space can be improved. Or it can lessened. I submitted nine detail questions here this week and none of our officials responded. I know that some of these people read CW. Why are they ignoring this? Where are the definitive answers from anyone directly involved with the project?
Is that not the question Tom? Why are we not discussing this? Why are they not responding to YOUR questions?
Because we are little people. They are the big people who serve in the almighty seats of power here in the Kingdom of Wausau. Why would they care what the public wants?
Input from Tom, Dino, Matt, Cheryl … wow, we’re really getting to the heavy hitters on this issue! Stick it to the man. Yeah!
Hey Mr. Neal – what about me? A more realistic approach to accommodate the growing number of people at the concerts is to block off traffic to all streets adjacent to the square (especially Scott St. which is both a nuisance and a danger) and use that space as well…also elevate the stage…it as a bad idea to attempt to accommodate the growing number of people by reducing available space…
Barry
Barry, we can climb trees and cling to the branches, like hippies on light towers at Woodstock.
Close off street traffic? In Wausau? Think of all the coronaries from having to walk an extra block, or road rage from having to (gasp) use a different route. Are you crazy! What do you think this is .. New York City? Why not open up the fire hydrants while we’re at it!
I say put the stage on top of the shoe store. Like the Beatles did. Then again, maybe a scale model of Lambeau Field …
Ever feel like no one is listening?
What will we do with all those parking spots downtown if we move Concerts on the Square? Sorry, I couldn’t resist that one. I actually think Cheryl’s idea to relocate Concerts on the Square is brilliant however it seems as if its one of the only “bringers” downtown so I would assume that idea would get the kabash.
The only thing I think that park needs is trees, but mature, shady trees but there is not anything we can do to have that right now.
“Ever feel like no one is listening?”
Yes, it happens all the time.
My understanding is that there are plans that will be shared within the next few weeks. I haven’t seen them, but I’m sure that there will be changes from the drawing that people are looking at now and I’m equally sure that there will be things that many people — including me — will want to change (beginning with the potential construction schedule.)
People can read some of what I’ve said for themselves (and please DO NOT read into this that I am suggesting we adopt a design similar to Portland’s, which I specifically do not):
http://tinyurl.com/ysna35
It’s important to understand that the “don’t change anything” position is one that allows for absolutely ZERO compromise. Whether the current ideas are altered, delayed or tossed out the window like everything else has been over the years since we cleared the block, adopting a position that insists on no compromise is not my idea of a thoughtful approach.
This is literally a debate on the public square and there’s nothing wrong with that. If nobody cared about what the public thought, then it would already have been done, wouldn’t it? We do care.
I vote for improving the square… although I don’t think the fountain is necessary, I don’t oppose it.
Well Matt, I think maybe your right, or maybe your wrong. But the fact is the City Council has not had a lot of discussion of this issue.
The plan is not even available for download anywhere, i do not think.
At some point they need to stop this discussion. It feels like they are selling it to us, but selling it badly.
I think they should experiment with moving the stage to the north side of the block for an event or two to see the quality of the sound. If it works it would allow for them to close Jefferson street as overflow space for larger events.
Another point(sorry for posting so much)
I think pervious pavers with grass should be used everywhere red pavers are used in the plan.
Jim, zero change to the square may or may not be a compromise – especially if the notion of moving the concerts entirely away gains traction.
Barry
Jim R … thanks for chiming in.
I think you can see that I am in favor of some sort of groovy improvement plan. But, I don’t like being fed a crappy drawing and short story in the newspaper. I want details, right down to the flowers. Some might say, “Tom, go to the council meetings if you’re so interested.” I know there are many others interested. Is the council ready for 40 of us to show up? Or 80? Or 420? Thing is, thousands of residents would probably love to see what the design will be. They’d love to see it in realistic detail, from the ground perspective as well as overhead. This is how other projects are communicated (elevations, landscaping, architecture, in the context of the surroundings). Enough with the ambiguous depictions, Lego trees and poor labeling (like indicating a wall on the crossing sidewalk!). Those involved in the project need to influence how it is communicated properly to the public. We have a right to know what is being considered.
Consider re-directing traffic on concert and event days and nights. Consider Matthew’s idea about putting the stage at the north, so Jefferson could be closed — that’s a highly supportable concept. And the pervious pavers idea is also forward-thinking.
As to moving concerts away from the square … I say, no way! It’s a downtown party with a downtown cachet. Keep it that way. In fact, add more concerts. If there’s a permanent stage, then it should be in near-constant use in the warm and near-warm weather seasons. A downtown that parties a lot … that’s something that you can market! Think big and small at the same time.
Like I said in a previous post, I really have no stake in the 400 block, I just like asking questions and causing a fuss. Consider me naive or dumb, but what is a pervious paver? Different word for a longer lasting paving stone? Also, if the city puts a concrete stage up, they better talk to a sound guy. Concrete can have weird effects on sound if done incorrectly. Better yet, any stage can make a band sound like ass if it is built like a pile.
I do, however, like the thought of lego trees, Tom. I know this wasn’t your intent, just gave me an Idea. How about giant structures made of Legos? Trees, Shrubs, Walls, all Legos. Talk about branding!
My opinion, moving the concerts is a BAD idea.
The concerts benefit downtown quite a bit. the surrounding businesses get shoppers, diners and people buying drinks.
Move the concerts to the island, which is anice place, and I bet attendance drops way off. One, no easy access bathrooms like the Mall and businesses have. Two, no more sales aside from what merchants go and set up there, of which will be what, cheese curds and that’s it? Three, the island does not have near the nice atmosphere of a concert in the middle of the downtown buildings. Four, what happens if we get a big rain that week? The 400 block dries fast, the island floods on occasion. Five, the mosquitos down there can be thick and vicious.
Leave the concerts downtown. They are downtown concerts, not island concerts.
Mohawk Matt, pervious pavers allow grass to gorw through them. Providing a green look while shoring up the earth beneath them and allowing for foot traffic without killing off sections of grass.
http://www.resourceventure.org/green-your-business/green-building/turfgrid.jpg
Tom, you are a genius – blocking off traffic during concerts is a great idea…
Barry
Do you think some of this is a class issue?
Joe Six Pack versus the Wine and Cheese crowd?
Good discussion. I agree with the idea of blocking off streets to augment the space on the block when that is necessary. The one that has seemed most attractive in previous discussions ive is 4th Street in front of the Grand because it is the least disruptive. (Jefferson is tricky because it can involve rerouting busses in ways that aren’t all that attractive.) The concerts were orginally set up on the block to provide for beneficial synergy to the downtown, as hpiguy cites. They are successfully doing some of that right now and there is even greater potential going forward, so I would be very reluctant to support moving them without a very compelling reason to offset what would be lost by such a move. In short, there is more to the concerts than just the concerts — wonderful as they are.
A few points that I have…
1. I don’t believe that this is a class issue whatsoever. Joe Sixpack may go because it is free, the Wine and Cheese crowd may go just to be seen. It’d be the same at Fern Island. Either way, I will still be annoyed by the children left unattended by the parents that are having a good time sipping their wine or guzzling beers.
2. Do you think for one second that Wausau Events and City Pages are going to move their successful and relatively cost free concerts anywhere without a fight? I don’t think so, it’s right outside their businesses. City Pages is a “money making business” quoted to me from Tammy Stryzinski (not sure if WE is non-profit)and I’m sure they’d push VERY hard to keep their shows right where they are. BTW, just a question but do City Pages and WE pay anything to host these concerts or is it ALL paid for with room tax dollars?
3. Pervious pavers … have you ever walked on them without tripping? There may be some skinned knees over this one. I, at one time working in the landscape construction field, used these pavers and they were meant more for vehicle parking and water run off. I’m not saying they wouldn’t work and are eco-friendly but in the long run not a great idea to me.
4. Fountains in front of the stage. Who ever thought of this has never combined water, wind and electricity.
5. Blocking off Jefferson would be very workable because of very little traffic but if the stage is built where they say it is, but how many people are going to want to stand behind the stage in the street? Not me.
6. Would it hurt downtown businesses if it moved? Absolutely! I work downtown and we are busier because of these shows but we are also a profitable business without them. I doubt some of the smaller businesses would want these concerts moved, it just make the difference between them staying open and shutting down.
5.Permanent stage… I’m kind of torn on this one. Firstly, a not so good idea… it may become a vandalism and grafitti magnet, and will only be used during a few months of the year when CP or WE has their concerts. It will take up quite a bit of room and seeing that the 400 Square is so small, it will take up precious space. On the contrary, it would make the performers happy to have a roof over their heads when there is not so great weather and as a sunblock for them.
In a nutshell, the 400 Square will have the concerts whether or not improvements are made. Room tax dollars that may be spent on other projects could be wasted here. Surely someone in the landscape construction field would be happy to rework these plans so everyone could be happy. From what I saw of the plans on that flawed blueprint, it couldn’t be that hard to cut back on those intentions. Walls, no matter how small… not needed. Permanent stage… not needed. Fountains…. again not essential. They may look great but are they cost effective?
Does this Square attract people when not in use for an event? I walk past there twice a day at least and there may be a smattering of people playing frisbee or lounging around but they could do that in any vacant lot with grass. It is not and I doubt if it ever will be a traveler’s destination …concerts or no concerts.
Plant a few trees and flower beds, repave the existing walkway with a permanent stone, maybe add a couple of fixed picnic benches and leave it be. The cost of this shouldn’t be a quarter of what they intend to use just from the room tax coffers. Monies that could be allocated for essentials instead of “improvements” that aren’t called for is folly and wasteful. Are the entities that pledged private donations have any say in this program and if they do, why should they have any more say than the public in the finalizing of the plans for the 400 Square? Sure hope not, otherwise it will be a monument of excess with no place to stand.
Hey, a permanent stage with a roof could double as a shelter for the homeless crowd when there aren’t concerts!
Concepts have been discussed and drawn, but nobody has pulled the trigger on implementation and I don’t really think that is imminent, either. The fountain — to the extent that there is one — has essentially been ruled out for placement near any stage. I don’t see it as frivolous. The pink noise of a water feature provides a respite from normal traffic, etc., while also creating a sense of privacy for conversations or reading, as well as ambiance. People naturally gravitate to water features and I’ve seen this in many venues, but perhaps the most illustrustrative was in the incredible bustle of Hong Kong. Fountains can be made flush to the ground and turned off so they’re not taking up space when it’s needed for something else.
I have my own feelings about permanent vs. a temporary stage. Right now, I tend to prefer the temporary stage because it’s not taking up space 100 percent of the time and because setting it up tells people “there’s something happening” — (remember the old westerns with the guy in the jail cell listening to the gallows being hammered together on the square?) On the other hand, I have seen people make use of carefully planned permanent stages for informal seating during times when nothing is happening. An example is Union Square in San Francisco.
“Walls” are not just walls. Done carefully, they provide informal seating, definition and a sense of place. (Pioneer Square in Portland does this well.) I’m not sure how I feel about them here yet, but I have seen them employed effectively and ineffectively in different venues. No blanket statement can be made about them without knowing more than I think we do.
Funding for concerts on the square was previously provided by room tax dollars. Last year, Marshfield Clinic stepped up to the plate and added two concerts to the schedule. This year, they sponsored the entire series. City Pages is the founder of the series, does the booking and provides substantial in-kind support. Wausau Area Events is a non-profit 501(c)(3) non-profit organization that works in concert with the Main Street Program. The staff support for staging and promotion of concerts on the square is no small thing.
I’m not going to get into a discussion of “essentials” vs. “improvements” because it’s a very subjective area. Bare bones is what we’ve got now and some might even argue that plenty of bones are missing.
Timothy P “On the contrary, it would make the performers happy to have a roof over their heads when there is not so great weather and as a sunblock for them. ”
To comment on that statement about the permanent stage, the temporary stage also has a roof and it does well as a rain and sun block, but when the weather turns soggy, they just go inside anyway. And I bet if it rained with a permanent stage, they’d go inside also.
I’m a fan of the temp stage, for the reasons Jim listed and because that one stage can be used all over the city for the parades and such. And it is anything but unnattractive. It is well built and not an eyesore at all.
For once the city bought something that gets used all over, by all different groups. It was a good move.
…soon enough the concerts may outgrow the square altogether, so great are they! In any case, the green space on the square is too small to play with – fountains and small walls could aesthetically augment a larger area…but here it would only muddle the already limited grassy area…
my 2 cents…
CW is having its birthday meet up tonight at Malarkeys at 530, not to difuse the exchange of ideas.
ANd I agree with Barry.
I think the stage should be temporary. The walls would add a nice touch, but not too many so it seems like the place is more a building foundation.
I still want it built out of Legos.
Throughout these 400 block threads I’ve seen some references to public squares of large metropolitan areas (Boston, Portland, San Francisco) as precedents for renovating our square. It’s good to look to these for inspiration, however, these cities are exponentially larger, cultural hot-spots with much more active downtowns than our little berg of 40,000 or so. I’m curious if researching more mid-size cities with well-done city squares would provide greater insight when planning this type of thing (perhaps it’s already been done)? It’s quite a stretch to compare Wausau’s nuances with those of Boston, but not so much of a stretch to compare it with, say, Rochester, MN, or Appleton or possibly Madison (just some nearby examples).
It’s akin to looking at San Antonio as a guide for developing a riverwalk downtown before first looking at a place like LaCrosse, which by all reports has a good thing going.
To me the 400 Block still looks like the sodded footprint of a razed building. A friend from Minneapolis once referred to it as that weird vacant-park-looking thing down the street. But it doesn’t need to be over-developed, either. I think it needs some plant life (some trees, maybe flower gardens) and more decorative walkways for sure. Just some finishing touches. And I’ve always thought it could use a play area/structure for kids.
Great point Tom. Those others cited are also centers that bring out what is inherent in their towns.
How does this design celebrate what is in our town?
And for the record, who did the design?
A good example of how not to represent your town’s vibe is the Weston “urban planning” from 2004. I’m not sure what “Prairie Style” has to do with Weston, in an area that’s far more forest than prairie. I do know that Weston used a Minneapolis-based urban design firm (Damon Farber and Associates) but I’m not sure who had the Frank Lloyd Wright fixation. And it’s a lesson in inconsistency, too, as it was kind of half-assedly executed.
I live in Weston, where are you talking about?
See what I mean? :)
Dino, it’s the stretch of Schofield Ave. from around Walgreens to around Birch Street. The planters, “W” flags, medians, etc. were designed to reflect the Prairie Style (hence the typeface for the Weston welcome sign and the aesthetic of the flags). So you have a couple mile stretch of it and that’s it.
On a related note, the vegetation-filled medians make left turns a much greater adventure than before. Another example of form trumping function (a no-no).
Thanks for the Weston explanation, I drive through there every day and have thought it a pointless waste of funds that it ongoing with the constant attention needed from the landscaping company.
As for the square. Has anyone considered placing the temp stage on one of the corners so that even when busy, everyone would be in front of the stage? I get home from work, shower and rush down with beer/wine and folding chairs, only to find that the only available space is to the side of the stage where the sound sucks and the only thing to watch are the multitude of insane kids.
Pervious pavers? Have you ever sat on those things? Many people bring blankets and picnic on the ground. They wouldn’t be any better for those with camping chairs either.
If a permanent stage is ever built, put permanent restrooms beneath it. The porta-pottys work well enough when they are there and if there is more than one.
If the crowd numbers are getting too much for the area, you should continue the policy of booking the same acts year after year. I know many people who only go to see new acts.
So before my tangent regarding Weston, I had asked a question about whether mid-sized cities were/are being researched regarding our city square (back in comment #32). I’d love to hear an answer (Jim, since you’re a city official who is paying attention). There was also Dino’s question regarding how could the square be modified to celebrate our town? Tweaked to reflect/amplify what’s good about our community?
In response, let me say that I’m happy to look at good ideas from any size city. At the same time, I have not been researching CITIES for this project, but looking at SQUARES. Our square has specific dimensions, so it’s not as if anyone would be trying to build the new Yankee Stadium or something like that.
If the question has to do with the resources that would be realistically be available or the potential crowds that could be drawn, then my response would be this: given the size of the space, we would have sufficient resources for whatever level of finish we would be likely to choose and we could expect to max out the capacity for certain types of events here no matter how we developed it (including no further development at all.)
So if somebody’s got a great example from a small city, I’m interested. If someone wants to show me another green space with a quaint, white gazebo in the middle, then I’m not.
People who become familiar with big cities quickly learn that they aren’t really large, monolithic entities. Rather, they are collections of villages or neighborhoods that are identifiable and often have names: Near North Side, Greenwich Village, 6th Arrondissement, Dinkytown, West Central, West End, 9th Ward, Russian Hill, Lakefront, South Side, French Quarter, etc. We have them here too, but smaller and less in total. I’ve occasionally heard people try to say that examples from much larger municipalities are not valid, but that is never something that I’ve accepted. Moreover, you’ll find dozens of significant public gathering places in large cities. We have several here.
As for celebrating our town, we already have a number of functions occurring on the block and so having the form follow the function should inherently reflect that. In addition, it should be at home in the environment where it already finds itself. The square can be seen as a blank canvas, but I could also argue that it is probably more properly viewed as a portion of largely blank canvas within a much larger work.
How’s that for some morning meandering? And remember: these are MY opinions and not necessarily a reflection of anyone else’s. I’m just having the discussion like everyone else here. :)
“but I could also argue that it is probably more properly viewed as a portion of largely blank canvas within a much larger work.”
As a city council person, where can I see that larger work?
What is the plan? Where is it available?
Hey, Jim, thanks for the thoughts.
I would still respectfully argue that these villages or neighborhoods in larger metropolitan areas have much more dense, diverse populations, and proximity to and/or inclusion in a greater metropolitan area changes the nuances of these areas.
And in discussing the 400 Block specifically, it is not often referred to as just another of several parks or meeting places, but rather as a prominent feature of the area. Kind of a crown jewel of an emergent downtown. Much different than just another park.
If form is to follow function, than less will definitely mean more here. Most of the major events held on the block require plenty of open space and fluidity, so the more open the better. But some finishing touches are definitely way past due.
Dino, you can look at the downtown master plan here:
http://www.ci.wausau.wi.us/infosubcon.asp?dep=27&tid=2&sid=2
Much has been accomplished since it was prepared in 2000. Keep in mind that as a PLAN, it is not meant to be used as a specific block-by-block, building-by-building tool. It is more general than that.
tommichlig, I don’t think we have a substantial disagreement and I’ve never argued that it should be just another park (or even a “park” at all, for that matter.) As for density, yes, it is higher in the central cities of larger metro areas. The question is whether it is SUFFICIENT here and/or will be in the future. I think that it is compatible with with what I’m talking about. In the area of diversity, it was a primary driver in the formation of the 400 block farmers market being established five years ago and it continues to be an important area of focus with that venture.
Thanks Jim.
“Take away the concerts, and most of the people that go to the 400 block won’t be there. So why improve it if the concerts aren’t there?”
I’ve never been to the 400 block when there’s a concert and it’s always crowded. I don’t remember concerts during the farmers market. I also don’t remember them when I was there several times to take my daughter to something at the Grand that spilled out into the square with activities for the kids. Again, it was crowded. I don’t think you can say “most people won’t go” when clearly a lot of people go for other reasons than concerts.
Jim, your explanations have been helpful, thanks. Good insight into the reasons behind researching the areas you did. Seems as though you are in favor of taking the specific unique needs of this community and peppering it with inspiration from other areas (large or small).
How can the community at large contribute to the plan?
“How can the community at large contribute to the plan?”
* * *
Send your contributions to me and I’ll make sure they are put to good use. :)
But seriously, I think the next opportunity will be when the Ad Hoc City Square Committee meets to view the plans (which we haven’t seen yet.) Keep in mind that there has been an extensive public process leading up to this point. While the plan will be open to modifications and that will almost certainly happen, we are not really at a “blank slate” stage unless we choose to restart the entire endeavor (yet again.)
Yes, it’s obviously not a blank slate at this point. I’m extremely unfamiliar with how city gov’t operates, so forgive me but will it be a closed meeting? In other words, how, specifically, can the more rational public responses to the current plan be relayed to the committee? Not in the interest of further complicating things but rather to make sure that thoughtful critiques aren’t for naught…
It certainly will NOT be a closed meeting, but it may not involve a public hearing, either. As people get a chance to look at the plans, there will be opportunities to comment prior to anything being put in motion. The ad hoc committee doesn’t really have the authority to do more than make a recommendation, so it would have to go to the council for action. At that point, people can register to speak at the meeting and they can also communicate their thoughts to their representatives prior. I highly doubt that anyone is interested in rushing this through.
Good to hear that.
…I looked at the square yesterday – there’s not enough space for anything but cursory changes at the perimter – a tree or bush maybe, a small drinking fountain – the plan as proposed confounds form and function – there will be infringement into the usable (and already used) areas…really, the status quo needn’t be changed when it is already excellent – is there a problem that I am unaware of? I’ve been to dozens of concerts on the square – and, in fact, am ‘chalkman’, I take my kids to the glow, chalkfest, artsblock, etc., and I do not understand the drive towards change here…
Barry