Chris on 
I am a performer and I have played drums and percussion in several types of musical configurations from an orchestra pit at the Grand Theater, to rock and roll, blues, and ethnic music at various other downtown venues in Wausau, past and present. As such, I, of course, benefit from a vital downtown Wausau night life.
The news is awesome and welcome, that a new owner-operator for the beautiful Fillmore facility sitting idle downtown. Hopefully now I will get my first opportunity to perform on that great stage with some of the great local musicians I’ve had the honor of playing with over the years.
I have heard a rumor that it will become downtown Wausau’s first sports bar-themed venue (I can only assume if the venue does go sports bar its mission will still include imported and local musical acts and other performance art.) I think this is a valid idea, but not my personal favorite. I have played in venues that are otherwise sports bars, and it is pretty strange to be performing my craft while big screen TVs are turned on all over the place, sometimes with the audio still on, and one time right over our heads above the band. We actually had to ask the manager to turn it off.
Whatever the rumors might be, I have the following thoughts to share with the new owners.
The beautiful stage and sound engineering at the Fillmore, or whatever it will be called, is a diamond in the rough. I wish the new owner all the best and I do realize that they will have to engineer a creative and innovative money making theme/scheme in order to survive in this very fickle and, let’s face it, limited market. I hope they succeed and give us local musicians opportunities to perform there, in between the national and regional acts they will have to attract in order to use the facility to its potential. They should become a permanent target for people who are looking for what’s happening in downtown Wausau, or simply an attractive get-away that would bring them to our fair city.
I think something that would help it succeed is to make sure the theme is not too confined or narrow.
The new owners will have to have an attitude about the place as more of an exhibit hall/convention center, with occasional but regular performance art that would bring in people willing to invest in a $20-30 ticket versus the $50-90 ticket at the Grand Theater for their night of enjoyment and soul massage. In between those events, run an open utility center for whatever people or businesses might want to stage there. From Boy Scouts to Native American Powwows, from weddings to wakes, the idea being to place no limits on this variation by getting the interior ambiance overly invested in a single theme. Again, think exhibition hall, neutral themes, easily changed themes, and so on.
If something like big screen TVs, neon beer signs, poker machines, or karaoke become prevalent, the new owners will have missed the mark and the opportunity that is there for a unique and permanent contribution to the downtown’s vitality.
And of course, I believe they must work WITH the existing downtown entertainment establishments and eateries, as the owners of Malarkey’s Pub and The Intermission Bar so gracefully do, so that the options for the consumer are optimized when they are looking for something to do downtown. This cooperation is essential to surviving the fickle market that is downtown Wausau.
I can’t wait to get up on that stage!
Anybody who thinks of bringing a sports bar to downtown wausau has no clue what our downtown has been all about for the last 25 years or so. What makes our downtown great is the fact that we DON’T have sportsbars and it is based on arts, live music, etc. Can you imagine our wonderful 400 block featuring football games? No. I wish the new owners well but bringing a sports bar into downtown wausau is simply a horrible thought and if that’s what they want to make it, fine but I will not be there.
Chris…I think you should reconsider that. Football is part of our culture. As are all sports.
We should not divide ourselves based on our passions.
I mean, its not possible, but if it was, how cool would it be for a youth football game to be held on the 400 block some afternoon.
Pop Warner football is awesome.
The goal of all community should be inclusion, not exclusion.
This sense that downtown is one thing, for one group, has led to a tremendous divide in this city for a long time. There is a sense that downtown is for THOSE PEOPLE, and those people ignore the needs of the rest of this city.
Thousands of people see Woodchucks games, the Wausau semi pro football team, youth and high school hockey, Badger state games, etc all as amazing fun.
Not all of it is for me, but all of it belongs in a COMMUNITY.
Well-said, Dino.
I was fortunate to live in Hopkins, MN for a brief time. Granted, it’s an inner-ring suburb of Mpls., but it has its own historic, active main street and urban center. What makes it a center of activity was that in addition to an arts center, specialty shops, coffee shops, etc., it also has a locally-owned hardware store, meat market, IGA-sized supermarket, barber shop(s), sports bar, dry cleaner, etc. etc. all within a stretch of a few blocks.
It draws all kinds of folks. Any time of day, any day of the week.
Thanks Tom…I think there is a real, and in many ways VALID sense that there is downtown, and there is the rest of town.
This idea that this or that group or idea does not belong, is problematic.
I think that is one of the real challenges we face as an America, and by extension a Wausau. We need to create a narrative in which everyone is involved. That it matters to everyone.
That may be what makes our downtown so great for Chris… but there are many people (like the one typing this comment) who finds very little downtown to spend my time (and thusly my money) there.
There is this perception that the “downtown crowd” is a different class of people… better than the rest of us…
Whether or not that perception is in fact reality is open for debate… but comments such as Chris’s is what contributes to said perception.
I agree with both Chris and Dino on this one. We shouldn’t exclude, but also, I don’t believe a sports bar is needed downtown. Loppnow’s is just down the road. But, if it should happen, it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. The question I would have would be “How do we combine a sports bar and music venue”?
Respectfully, I have to disagree with Matt. If downtown is going to be a destination, it needs to offer a variety of popular entertainment options, and by necessity that includes one of the most ubiquitous fixtures in Wausau, the sports bar. Some nights you want to see the fourth best folk singer and other nights you want to watch the fourth best NL Central baseball team. Or do one after the other and not drive.
With regard to “How do we combine a sports bar and music venue”. Two words: Gary Glitter. *shudder*
The smart bet would be to serve wings and similar food. Buffalo Wild Wings seems to be doing pretty darn well, almost over capacity on week nights.
I’m not saying a sports bar would be a bad idea downtown, I guess I was thinking that it isn’t needed in that space. With a building like the Fillmor, something more unique could be had. The image I have of a sports bar and music venue in that space just isn’t jiving I guess.
How about this…lets NOT LABEL IT.
If it is a bar, has some tvs, and has some live music. How about that?
During live music, you shut the tvs off, during the packer games, you do not have a band.
How about that? When I was in NYC a bit ago, I saw a live performance at the 40 40 Club. That is about as cool as sports bar are you could want.
I think we have a real issue with the labeling. We take these labels so seriously.
I do not think Lopps is a sports bar, no more than I think Malarkeys is a music bar. I think they are bars.
Maybe we just move past that. Accept the bar for whatever it is. And hope to enjoy it.
Personally, I would like a Surf themed bar, but that would not really work 9 months of the year here.
I also agree with both Dino and Chris on this one.
If a sportsbar theme is what it takes to make the nut at this great facility designed with awesome sound stage engineering, and the operators will not waste the facility by making that their primary focus … it might fit downtown.
Could be as simple as not booking the ‘big’ acts when you know there will be a Fri night Packer game …. for example.
If the new operator can get live music as an equal focus, and not over invest in sports. …
I think this is a unique challenge for a downtown nightlife venue. The folks calling those shots will have to be great planners and take a lot of things into consideration while booking … and not be afaid to piss off the sports crowd … occasionally … that will come with the territory.
If the focus is not on live music, with all the energy put into the plant with that focus … it would be a shame .. even if it did succeed as a sports bar.
Dave, why do you think there is this live music versus sports polarization? I do not think they are opposed at all. In fact, the narratives that are in sport are just as compelling as music to me.
Yet, there is a recurring idea that sports and music cannot exist. Why is that?
I think it is interesting how this highlights the sort of downtown versus outside downtown idea. And it sort of manifests itself in sports versus music. Interesting indeed.
Okay, let’s see how much trouble I can get into with my two cents.
Personally, (and these are broad generalizations and don’t apply to everyone)… I think that many associate music with culture.
All music has its own culture that goes with it, the blues, jazz, country, even metal has its associated cultures. And of course, to associate oneself with something of culture lifts you, as an individual.
On the other hand, sports are seen as entertainment for the non-cultured. Those that sit on a Sunday to watch NASCAR are labled as red-necks, and then the cheezeheads who follow the packers.
Yes, there are many people who appreciate culture items, and sport items… but as a general rule… live music tends to be a culture thing and sports events are more for the “ne kulturny” people among us.
One of my favorite sayings is “perception is reality”. Personally, I feel by going to a live music venue, I will be surrounded by people who may look down on me for not being as tuned into the music. Not knowing who the artists inspirations or mentors were. I enjoy music without any of the back story.
However, when I go into a sports bar, or someplace like BWW, I get the feeling that I am surrounded by other “mensch”‘es who are just looking to enjoy some junk food and a little TV.
Chris’s original comment helps put teeth into this perception… Downtown is what it is because it doesn’t have a sportsbar and focusses more on culturual items. If you are not into culture, you don’t belong downtown.
Not everyone feels like Chris does, but enough do to convince those like me, lacking culture, that I am not really welcome and will find other venues (such as Athletic park to spend my time, and my money)
It’s really not all that complicated .. I think.
It is as simple as live performance art v. televised and grotesquely over commercialized sports.
I get a jonesing for both at times, and enjoy both at times.
I am not opposed to a downtown sports bar, and I don’t think the two aforementioned could not exist in the properly managed venue. It has been done. But I have yet to be in such a facility where proper respect was given to the performance art when it was the night for it.
My view on the Wausau Theater (might as well refer to it’s original name) and it’s physical renovation is that … it is first and foremost … a state of the art performance art and sound stage facility. THAT is the diamond in the rough.
I know nothing of the new owner operators, and so have no reason to believe that they, it the Sports Bar theme is more than a rumor, will be able to honor the facility for it’s potential as a performance venue, for the sake of Sports and perhaps .. .I say perhaps cause nothing is certain in Downtown Wausau … the goal of quicker cash flow.
That is why I envision more of an exhibition hall type facility that never gets locked into a daily regular crowd, but is diversified and slowly explores that market while having a semi regular great imported act that allows the diamond in the rough to shine.
In his post, Chris says “our downtown” and “our 400 block”.
Who exactly is “our”? Who are you that do not want a sports bar downtown? Who are you that tales sole ownership of the downtown area and the 400 block for your interests only?
I see Dave isn’t keen on the idea, and this Chris guy now.
Is downtown for everyone or not? Let us know. Because if it’s not for everyone, then maybe they can start dividing the taxes as such too so that the entire constituency doesn’t have to fund “your” playground anymore.
John says it well, that better than you attitude is what makes the city feel like downtown vs. everyone else. Way to keep that snobby, i’m better than you vibe going Chris.
As someone who is downtown every day, I think turning the Fillmor into a sports bar/dance club with more of a mainstream appeal would probably be the best sort of plan to add diversity to the nightlife of downtown Wausau.
The downtown currently spends a lot of time cultivating an arts community, and even at Malarkey’s I try to bring in Niche’ acts, but not everyone is into art or music…I can respect that. Adding a mass appeal whether it’s sports or top 40 dance sort of place would bring a new demographic to downtown, with more people will come even more options.
I think after a large main stream bar opens the next logical place would be more of a lounge where people can just hang out and talk.
Malarkey’s and Intermission have live music every weekend and almost every night….I love it, but again sometime people just want to talk over a drink in a quieter place.
If the nightlife of downtown eventually evolves into a place where Malarkey’ and intermission can have Niche bands in smaller venues, the fillmor has larger sports or mass appeal sorts or activities, and a lounge provided a place for people to hang out and talk, we would have a nice, diverse entertainment district for downtown Wausau. Add to that the 400 block events, Grand events, and Wausau’s festivals….we will really have something going on downtown!
Ahh…my love for DBC never ends. He shows up, drops hammers. DIG IT!!!
John…I think that is a common and lovingly incorrect perspective. As someone who is there for the bands, and knows the inspirations for this or that…I truly do not care if others do. I think a lot of us think that there is some hipster class in Wausau, and that these ideas are manifest in live music places.
I would offer you that they are not. For the most part, the myth of the hipster culture in Wausau is one that is created by people who want to be the hipsters. Not the ones doing something.
So, if you want to go see something, you do not need to pass a litmus test of cool before admittance. Your money is green. Trust me.
Dave…but what of what John said, and DBC said, is there a line in our city? I think you feed it with “televised and grotesquely over commercialized sports.” I do not think any sport is over commercialized. In fact I appreciate the commerce involved, because it allows someone to play baseball for a living. And baseball is something I love to watch.
The claim that it is overcommercialized is a misleading, and exclusive idea. Why is it over commercialized? And what role do you have in that over commercialization? What role does our culture have in a place where Emmet Smith has 100000 million dollars for running, and Howard Luedtke has a monthly mortgage?
But more than that, what does the attitude of someone like Chris mean for downtown? I think it is pretty uncommon actually, but it seems to be a vocal minority.
Tyler Vogt…kicking butt.
Tyler gets it. Diversity. Something for everyone. Not one thing for just a few.
On the Sports vs live music concept…I think if you are going to present them pick one….playing sports and live music at the same time divides the attention of the crowd.
People cheering at wrongs times, the band playing during an important call, people cheering for a touchdown in the middle of an intense song…they just don’t really lend themselves to happening at the same time.
Also there are sports EVERY day….so if you take a off of Baseball to present a band, and a bunch of people show up to your sports bar to watch Hockey, Football, Golf, Racing (I don’t know which sports seasons overlap each other, but there is always a game somewhere somebody just has to see) what do you do? Cater to the people that showed up for the band, or side with your regulars sports crowd and turn on the game?
At Malarkey’s I realize we aren’t a sports bar, if music is being performed I am happy to turn on a game for someone, but if there’s a band I can’t afford to neglect my regular music loving customers.
It tough to do both…but the Fillmore easily has enough space to physically divide the room in half so people can just choose which event they are there to see. I just hope they don’t have sports on screen during the bands, and live music pumped into the sports bar side…
Typo in my previous post….
“At Malarkey’s I realize we aren’t a sports bar, if music ISN’T being performed I am happy to turn on a game for someone, but if there’s a band I can’t afford to neglect my regular music loving customers.”
Tyler…if you go back and read Chris comment, do you think that reflects an accurate cultural divide in our city?
“Anybody who thinks of bringing a sports bar to downtown wausau has no clue what our downtown has been all about for the last 25 years or so. What makes our downtown great is the fact that we DON’T have sportsbars and it is based on arts, live music, etc. Can you imagine our wonderful 400 block featuring football games? No. I wish the new owners well but bringing a sports bar into downtown wausau is simply a horrible thought and if that’s what they want to make it, fine but I will not be there.”
That is what Chris said.
I read what Chris said, and he is surely entitled to his opinion-I am not a sport bar guy…but I can still see and obvious value to having them around.
For example, if the increased amount of business downtown results in me being able to push my band budget higher we could bring even bigger acts downtown.
I was responding to your (Dino’s) comment, “Yet, there is a recurring idea that sports and music cannot exist. Why is that?”
I have been to tyler’s place a few times… it’s a nice place… just not really my thing.
That is fine… businesses don’t cater to just me.
However, if there was a business downtown that catered to me (sports bar per se), then there is a very real chance of popping into other downtown establishments to see what they are all about.
The purpose of this 400 block hub-bub was to make downtown a “destination”… give a reason for people to come.
We have plenty of reasons for the “in” crowd and the artsy-fartsy folks to come downtown… so.. making the offerings more diverse (agreeing with Tyler) benefits all downtown businesses.
There is this discussion if downtown is elitist… maybe it is.. maybe it isn’t… but it “feels” that way to me personally…
Bring on the TV’s!!
I was in the Fillmor during the Liam Ford concert and have a different notion than you do. Although I’ll readily admit I don’t know anything about running night spot (But I do have some experience frequenting them). The immediate impression I got was that this is exactly the wrong size to make it in downtown Wausau. Malarkey’s and the Intermission are smaller and have lower overhead. But the Fillmor is not big enough to make money with weddings etc., the mainstay of a lot of places. It just seems to me that the place is big rnough to require a significant overhead but not big enough to be versatile.
As to the sports bar thing. I don’t go to them very often. Hardly at all now that the Big Ten network is on the cable. To provide another one not to go to doesn’t effect me at all. Aren’t there already a number of similar places around the area? Will adding another one automatically increase the number of people who want to go to them? Or will it dilute the business at all of them? Doesn’t the new owner already own a couple of sports bar type places in Stevens Point that are doing well? But Stevens Point has ten thousand college kids who like these places and drink a lot more than people like me do.
I don’t much about the business of these things but I do know that when you try to aim your business at two or more distinct groups ( and the sports bar crowd and the music crowd are distinct. Do you have a band or the World Series on a Saturday night? Or the Badger game?) you really aren’t aiming at either one.
The one thing I do know that I wouldn’t invest any money in the Fillmor as it’s been described thus far. and I’m pretty sure I’d bet it isn’t go to make it. It’s like the Wausau Club – a very good idea with not much chance to succeed.
Just a note, it’s entirely feasible to go to a sports bar for a game and THEN see a band. You don’t have to pick ONE venue and stick with that choice. That’s part of the point of a downtown destination. It draws in both of what John calls the “cultured” and “non-cultured” and gives them the choice of having the experience they want to have. To that end, a sports bar is invaluable as part of a mix.
At the other end of the spectrum, people want some safety and want to be able to know what to expect when they go somewhere. That’s where a multi-modal bar as the Fillmore is proposed to be *could* be a problem. Sure, some people are rather polymorphic in their tastes, but most aren’t. Most sports fans will tend to go to a bar that is likely to cater to their interests. If the Fillmore is playing a band instead of the game, those people head over to another bar, and are less likely to go to the Fillmore during a later session when there is a game on.
This can be addressed. If I remember correctly, Tyler spoke on another blog here about the drunks who would come into Malarkey’s when they opened and how they needed to be dealt with so the bar wouldn’t become “that” type of bar. Similarly, the new bar will really have a challenging job of managing that personality they want to purvey, but that difficulty will be doubled by the bifurcation of its personality.
To be honest maybe they just need to put up a big sound insulated wall and open two separate bars in the space. One can be “The Fill” and the other “More”
First on the button Dino keeps pushing .. a perceived “cultural divide” in downtown Wausau.
I think this is an imaginary green eyed monster. Culture .. is real. And does not mean the same as, the culture of this or that (the folks who have a taste for Nascar was an example offered … the folks who have a taste for Broadway plays .. would be another).
Culture is a term I recognize as commonly used to refer to the fine arts. Very few people go to an opera titillated by the prospect of the tenor ‘crashing’ in the middle of an aria. Very FEW people go to a Nascar race NOT titillated by the prospect of a crash.
One is culture … one is the culture of ….
This imaginary elitist downtown thing is BS. IMHO.
Some nights I want to watch sports and see the great crashes, which sometimes wreck a car or two and sometimes get the pigskin into the end zone … and some nights I want to go hear really well delivered performance art – usually in fhe form of a well written well performed piece of music that moves my soul … usually rock and roll.
I think Mr. Fischer and Mr. DBC continually bringing up this red herring of a cultural divide that exercises elitism downtown is just BS.
I’m sorry they feel that way, but much more than that I am grateful for the PAF, Tyler, Jim K, and others for bringing me the occasional opportunity to have my soul massaged by poetry and music.
And Chris33ad is right when he says: “What makes our downtown great is the fact that we DON’T have sportsbars and it is based on arts, live music”.
This IS what makes the downtown special.
And if a sports bar can be managed properly so as to polish the diamond in the rough (dance hall is cool, bring on the Polka!) that is this WONDERFUL LIVE PERFORMANCE ART facility … then bring it on.
Maybe the TVs could stay in the eastern third of the room !! But still OFF when anything is happening at the stage.
My main point is still: please don’t waste the work that has been done turning the place into a potentially magical live music venue … on anything other single thing.
But Dave…you cannot deny that what Chris started this thread with, and you just continued is not actually a sense of community, but rather DIVIDED community.
Those who like this one style, versus those that like that other style.
Chris’s comment was flat out exclusionary.
You read the WDH forums, and you know as well as anyone that there is a divide. You can see it in the 400 Block. No matter what amount of money is raised and donated (I would guess over a million bucks by now), people simply reject the idea of working on the 400 Block.
I am simply rejecting this notion that it needs to be anything at all.
There are three people in this thread…Chris, John, and DBC all of whom address the cultural issue.
I have said that I truly don’t know if the cultural divide truly exists… but there is this perception that it does. And, the perception seems to linger because there is sufficient anecdotal evidence to support it.
Mr. Keeffe says that the new owner should not “waste the work that has been done turning the place into a potentially magical live music venue”
What the previous owners vision for the property was, or what work has been done is fairly irrelevant. The new owner is just that.. the owner.. and has the right to transform the property to whatever his/her vision is (compliant to applicable zoning and other regulations). Wausau will benefit more from a business model that will succeed.
Could the Filmore as a live music venue succeed? Maybe – Maybe Not. I don’t know that business or that market. But, this business owner has the right to transform the business into what will make money.
And in the big picture of things, this property not sitting empty.. this property drawing people to downtown… this owner making money on the venture to allow for things like property taxes to be paid… all of that is good for Wausau… even if it is… GASP – a sports bar
John hit in on the nailhead. The “cultural divide” is … perceived.
It is not real. Granted, the perception is real … in the minds of a vocal minority.
I don’t think we should base our visions for a healthy future downtown, or in any realm for that matter, on the perceptions of a few.
And .. I have never excluded the sports theme, I am basing my hope with the new owners on what the facility has been engineered for, and that is NOT a sports bar as we commonly know them to be.
I don’t pretend to be telling the new owners what to do, I am only expressing my hope for what I see as the potential for the building and what I see as a formula for sustained success.
Chris is not advocating division here, IMHO. He is merely observing established market and his preference fort the established market.
For what its worth, I don’t consider myself “cultured”, and I’m pretty sure I’m not “elitist”. But, I will venture downtown from time to time. Either to do open mic at Intermission, stop at Inner Sleeve, or pop in to Malarky’s once in a while.
It’s not that I don’t feel welcome downtown, rather, there isn’t anything other than the aforementioned places that holds much value for me.
And really, I don’t think a sports bar, even if it had live music, would bring me downtown any more frequently.
Matt .. would you come down town if you could enjoy one of your favorite locally micro brewed beverages and a good sandwich while listening to two hours of say … David Lindley? (Jackson Brown’s lead string man and a musical hero to many as a solo act) ?
Just for an example.
And Dino … when you posit that; “No matter what amount of money is raised and donated (I would guess over a million bucks by now), people simply reject the idea of working on the 400 Block.”
I would challenge that by positing that I suspect for every person who fits that description .. there is at least one who has changed over from the ‘do nothings’ … to the ‘I like what is happening to the 400Block now’.
Frankly, I think you grossly underestimate the number of people who support the project now. Some have suggested a referendum on the issue of changing if from what it is now to what the vision is. I would welcome that because I think the result would be a landslide in favor of the development.
Or … perhaps you are just playing devil’s advocate here.
Dave, if the entertainment was to my liking, and the price was right, sure I’d hang out downtown at an event or something. David Lindley just isn’t my thing (not to say he isn’t a great guitarist). Give me an evening of Lee Rocker (Stray Cats) or even Dale Watson and I’d be there.
I think the last time I turned down beer and sandwiches was 1998.
So Matt, nice response by the way, is not your average sports enthusiast, of which a sports themed bar would have to depend on, and inspire to leave there already established local haunt, all while a diamond of a sound stage sits empty, at least most of the time.
And Matt will have to hope that the NEXT operator of that facility gets Lee Rocker or Dale Watson in there to go with his sandwich and Red Eye/Bull Falls/Great Dane beer.
However, Matt by his own admission, already spends time downtown. Not often, but from time to time his wanderings lead him there.
There are many many people who the closest they get downtown is a visit to Sears for new tires.
Maybe the live music venue taking advantage of some of the existing infrastructure could be a profitable endeavor… but maybe the owner’s vision, whatever that is… may also be profitable whether or not live music is part of the equation.
something different is good.. something that is different than the core of downtown is good… something that attracts people who just don’t go downtown…. there are many of us out there
If this sports bar does a few things right, it’s going to be successful. To get the business crowd in, you’ll need good prices ($10 burgers are out) and fast service. No one wants to wait 45 minutes for the meal if they have a normal boss to answer to.
Look at the business The Mint does. Always packed because the service is good, fast and the food is great tasting, reasonably priced. They have it all but space. It’s cramped in there and they still do good business.
Add in big TVs, cute waitresses/waiters, a lot more tables, room to move, and you’ll draw a good crowd of downtown working people all day long.
Not everyone can take 2 hours for lunch or has $12 for a wrap. Chineses is great from Yao’s or Chang, but again, it gets old when that’s your only options. There needs to be something for everyone. I think this new place will fill the need for what the average office worker is looking for downtown.
Chinese, not Chineses. Sorry. :)
Dave, I am in fact playing devils advocate. But, Chris opened what I think is a real position. I think there is a real sense of us versus them, in town.
I think we see that manifest here in his post. We see it in Fischers response.
It is a real thing.
We see it in the people that oppose the 400 Block, that call the 400 Block concerts names that involve chardonney, we see in these places.
I think it is important to address this divide.
I have an idea of what I want in the club, but what I want is not all that important.
What is interesting is what Chris posted. What comes up repeatedly.
This is an interesting thing that Chris created.
Dino, any news on the hearing? Is CW going to beat the rest to the outcome?
Dino, any news on the hearing? Are we going to be able to say we heard if first at CW
No, I gave up after 6.5 hours…check my twitter stream.
Dino .. I appreciate your devil’s advocate role here. This has been a really nice buzz for me, this thread.
But regarding the suspected ‘real’ cultural divide; I think your beating a dead horse. It is only as real as it is allowed to be in the mind of the one perceiving it. And in the larger picture it does no one any good to dwell on this negative perception and have it color things going forward. I think most people are capable of sucking chardonnay at one event and elbowing with Nascar and Budwieser (why, there may even be some one sucking Chardonnay while .. gasp … watching Nascar) at the next. We all do it because in Wausau most of us have friends in both circles. These circles are not as static as Madison Ave and the sensation driven media would have us believe. The few who are whining (love that pun, timeless) about this so called divide need to get over it already and take control of their perception back from the purveyors of crap that run things these days.
I don’t expect Downtown Wausau to somehow miraculously turn into some Utopian-everybody is satisfied-marketplace.
The market will bear what it will bear. We can create market to some degree, bit I know Wausau and that degree is pretty small and slow moving.
I’d like to see a sports bar downtown, it would be fun to hop from Malarkeys on a band break and go check out the Packer highlights on a Fri night.
I remain fixed on my point that what was created with the renovation of the Wausau Theater was a state of the art sound stage, and it would be a shame if that diamond in the rough was further covered with lava flow from some other quick cash flow motivated scheme.
That’s all I’m saying.
Totally agree with you Dave, hopefully that stage doesn’t go to waste.
As for that cultural divide, I went to Malarkey’s last night and investigated. There was a divide: the bar that separated me from my PBR.
Dave, I think you are wrong. Actually, my personal experience dictates to me that you are wrong.
You and I have have lived blessed lives. We have been privvy to some of the greatest most profound moments that downtown has to offer.
We can build an inclusive narrative around that experience, and from that narrative it is easy to see this as a wonderful place.
But, I also know that there are people at the PI who resent Malarkeys, and people who have a misconception of what the PI really is. There are people who simply consider their bar to be Loppnows, and think of other bars as the enemy.
This sense is fomented by the visible break from downtown that you see in the WDH forums, and other places. An open hostility and resentment. A rejection of the idea, simply because it is of downtown. A rejection of downtown because it can be thought that the council, and those in downtown are afforded greater position of power to affect economic change in this city.
These things are a real, and palpable sense in this city. It is a fair, and reasonable criticism. It becomes unfair when you become less than willing to engage in the discussion that shows evidence of that theory being false.
The idea that Rosenberg gets whatever he wants based on some secret cabal of Eurotrash wannabes, is false.
We see these myths put forth all the time. I admit to falling prey to them.
The reality is that the power, and influence follows the money. In this case, maybe that means whatever large project Mr. Ghidorzi wants to take on, or Mr. Dudley. Maybe the Mayor services those citizens with more investment, becauzse those citizens MAKE MORE INVESTMENT.
But the reality is, the statements of Chris are those of downtown elitism, and exclusivity.
“Anybody who thinks of bringing a sports bar to downtown wausau has no clue what our downtown has been all about for the last 25 years or so. What makes our downtown great is the fact that we DON’T have sportsbars and it is based on arts, live music, etc. Can you imagine our wonderful 400 block featuring football games? No”
It is this sort of thinking that dictates that progress does not happen, because it defines progress so narrowly. Chris wants what Chris wants, and anyone who wants to do something else, they are simply to be rejected for being ignorant of what makes downtown great.
I find that thinking to be the exact sort of thinking that is on the other side of the 400 Block narrative. The people who say we should do nothing, that it is good enough, that reject the idea of the money that we have raised. Those people are the same people who tell us that a sportsbar is a bad idea, that the 400 block is good enough, and that Rosenberg is the secret Mayor, and it is all a Chardonney Cabal.
None of these things are true. Rosenberg is not the secret Mayor, and we are not ruled by wine drinkers. And the city is much larger than a few square blocks downtown.
But to say that the divide is in the eyes of the beholder, that is sort of denying all evidence to the contrary.
So, Dino…. what are you trying to say? I get lost in the length of some of your posts.
It appears it would be better said the divide is in the eyes of the beer-holder. Lol
(Apologize in advance, over-tired for some reason)
NIce John and Matt …
And Dino .. I think you contradict yourself in your last comment.
Is it percieved or real … the so called cultural divide?
Can’t be both.
I consent to perception being a form of reality .. but that’s a whole issue unto itself.
John’s comment; “It appears it would be better said the divide is in the eyes of the beer-holder. Lol” … although presented in obvious jest … says volumes to me.
I’m thinking I’m through here. The perceived (the only thing like consensus here so far, even by Dino) ‘divide’ … is something that could be discussed ad-nauseam.
Please give us a Shank Hall … and not a Player’s that has an occasional band.
Thanks everybody.
Dave…I think we can point to this separation of ideas…
http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20100707/WDH0101/7070514/Campaign-nears-goal-for-renovations
As what I am referring to…and what is continued by Chris here.
Dino …
Repeated rantings of the very same, very few, very vocal minority.
Now .. I’m REALLY done here.