Charlespox on 
Some made comment that they did not like the fact that I wrote about something in Madison in the previous post, while others pointed out that I somehow did not live up to my responsibility because I had not written anything. So, I know of this dividing line, and I am willing to dance with it today. I believe, for myself, a line has been crossed by the Senate, and it makes me less likely to want to hold my tongue, or keyboard going forward.
Today in Madison the Senate has voted to call upon police to take into custody the 14 Democratic elected officials who have left the state, or are simply absent for a vote. It is within the rights of the Sargent at Arms to determine contempt, which has been determined. And according to the rules, the Sargent at Arms is then allowed to compel the missing members to return, by any means.
I find this troubling. Let me tell you why…what is to stop the Fitzgerald brothers from voting to have me taken into custody. Where would I be held? County Jail? Would I be handcuffed, would I have my Constitutional Rights? Would this appear anywhere on my criminal record?
How can the Republicans create a list of people, and call upon the law enforcement arm of the state and local governments to bring them in? Is this not an incorrect allocation of resources? Do we need to put State Troopers on the case, and take them off the interstate?
More over, how does this even work? Will they handcuff Lena Taylor? What if she resist? Will this escalate like all law enforcement cases do? Can they mace them? Taze them bro?
If the goal for any reasonable person in the case of conflict is to deescalate the conflict, how is this a deescalation of the conflict which can lead to a resolution? I believe this is not possible. I envision the 14 being brought in to the Chamber in cuffs, the session brought to order, and a vote called. How is this leadership? Clearly this is not something that any of us envision from our leaders, but this is an escalation of the dividing line between the two parties, and the culture that supports each of them.
I hope to get someone from the local legal community to comment.
A Dissenting Opinion from Lester Pines and Susan Crawford.
I understand the complexities of what your saying here Dino, but, once again I have to disagree with you. Whether or not I agree with the bill the Governor has on the table, the fact tat 14 representatives have held the fiscal responsibilities of the state at bay for the past few weeks is unacceptable. I understand the plight of the teachers and the unions and the government. What I don’t understand is how these 14 can simply not show up for work and think they are helping anybody. What they need to do is go back to work. I can tell you this much if I didn’t show up for work for three weeks, when I came back, I wouldn’t have a job. I think it is time the 14 stopped having their little game of let’s throw Wisconsin under a bus and hang out and be elitist and change Wisconsin through inactivity and get their asses where they belong home, in their seats doing what they were elected to do.
Isn’t it a felony for a state employee or officer to refuse to do their job when required? Yes, it is. These 14 have left the state, they refuse to do their job. They aren’t in Madison debating, so they are refusing to do their job. If they were stalling by debating, then more power to them. They are doing their job.
They’ve been ordered to appear in Madison and they refuse. Flat out refuse to do their job.
Should they be allowed to stop the state’s business until the next election if they choose?
If they can’t be forced back to do their jobs, then they should all be dismissed from their elected offices for refusing to do their jobs and the vote should be held with whomever remains.
By the way, if these were 14 republicans, I’d be calling for the same action against them. Would you?
From the State of WI:
946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
946.12(1)
(1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or
946.12(2)
(2) In the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee, does an act which the officer or employee knows is in excess of the officer’s or employee’s lawful authority or which the officer or employee knows the officer or employee is forbidden by law to do in the officer’s or employee’s official capacity; or
946.12(3)
(3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another; or
946.12(4)
(4) In the officer’s or employee’s capacity as such officer or employee, makes an entry in an account or record book or return, certificate, report or statement which in a material respect the officer or employee intentionally falsifies; or
946.12(5)
(5) Under color of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment, intentionally solicits or accepts for the performance of any service or duty anything of value which the officer or employee knows is greater or less than is fixed by law.
Ahh, DBC, gotta love the consistency. Instead of a discussion, you want to impugne my motives. I have been pretty public on Facebook, saying I didnt dig the disappearance. Then, I had it explained to me, and I understand the leaving. Do I support the leaving? Well, you do not really know.
But, to wonder if I would call for the arrest of 14 Republicans, well that is just sort of attacking me, for posting something. I get it, but it does not matter.
Thank you for posting the statute.
Chad, it is amazingly complex. I am not making a statement of any kind about the validity of leaving (I read it over now, and am pretty sure I am not), but I am asking a question rather about this idea of custody. Is it a good idea to escalate this conflict?
It allows for the image that I put forth. It also allows for the left (me) to further roil the pot by saying that the Governor is unwilling to accept the labor unions concession, but is willing to use state resources to apprehend the 14 missing people.
That is problematic for me, the author of the blog post.
” I can tell you this much if I didn’t show up for work for three weeks, when I came back, I wouldn’t have a job”
Who would fire you? Your boss, that’s who. And these senators bosses are not Walker or the Fitzgerald brothers. They are the voters who sent them there. And they can “fire” them through a recall.
” I think it is time the 14 stopped having their little game of let’s throw Wisconsin under the bus”
Are you their boss? Incidentally, according to polls the majority of people in Wisconsin have a considerably different opinion of who’s throwing whom “under the bus.” And ask the effected public employees. I’m not so sure that this bill is a a “game” to them. Besides who “threw Wisconsin under the bus” in the beginning by proposing this bill and trying to ram it through?
” They aren’t in Madison debating, so they are refusing to do their job. If they were stalling by debating, then more power to them”
That is, of course, exactly what they doing. They are putting the issue before the public everyday and discussing it. As to this debate you want. The GOP has made it clear that as soon as they get a quorum they are going to vote. There will be no debate. Look at what happened in the Assembly for the evidence. Besides, this is 2011, not 1811. They can debate over the phone and evidently they are. It’s a bogus argument when the governor is on the record tme and again saying he will not discuss it because he is not going to negotiate. He had 20 minutes to talk to the fake “Koch” but none to talk to the elected representatives of the state.
the Democrats are doing exaclty what they should do. the longer this goes on the more information about Walker’s budget surfaces, and that more information the people get, the more unpopular it becomes.
You want the state government to get back to normal? It’s simple. All Walker has to do is compromise witth the public workers. And remember, that the workers have already compromised by agreeing to every financial demand made by Walker. Every one. What has Walker compromised on? Nothing, and he is adamant that he won’t.
The Democrats are doing their jobs by staying away. and the longrt they do the more apparent it becomes that the majority of people in Wisconsin do not want this legislation.
Of course he won’t budge on the collective bargaining.
The union agreed to all the financial concessions in an attempt to retain the collective bargaining because if they retain their collective bargaining they’ll just demand it all back next contract, and likely the back pay/benefits from this year as well.
You can’t see that is their ulterior motive by giving the concessions now? Give a little bit now to retain that power and then next year, smack the citizens with gigantic demands on salary and benefits.
Dbc…
1. Do you have an evidence that the union will do what you say? Or have they ever done something similar to what you envision? Because without any evidence, then you are just, well, mind reading.
2. So, then it is not about money? Its about collective bargaining? Because if its about money, as you said they made the concessions.
Matthew,
I think it is great that you take the time to work with what DBC (or I in some cases) write. I think that some people like to create a narrative, and stick to that narrative, regardless of the lack of evidence or evidence to the contrary.
For example, in the latest comment, DBC both reads the minds of the Union leadership, and Gov Walker. This is a good task, but without any evidence, he is just sort of talking.
Do I think he is wrong? I do not know. You and I both know what would make me feel better, some evidence.
But, well, we dont have that.
“Of course he won’t budge on the collective bargaining.”
Then there is no purpose in returning and ‘discussing’ anything. Walker and Fitzgerald simply want to ram this down the throat of the people of Wisconsin. And the longer it goes the more the people know about it, the more the opposition grows. No discussion? No compromise? No reason to return
Evidence?
Rasmussen Poll, a GOP pollster: Support for Walker 44%, support for the Democrats 53%, Public Policy Polling, a Democrat pollster, support Walker 47%, support the Democrats 52%. Weakening the rights of the unions? 41% support Walker 56% support the unions.
PP Polling on 2/28 52% would vote for Barrett if the election were held today, 47% would vote Walker.
The longer this goes the worse it gets for the GOP according to every poll. And as the effects of the budget become more publicized it’s going to get worse.
The Democrats are ‘debating’ the issue in the only forum they have, the forum of public opinion. And it appears they are winning.
Are the senators on either side vulnerable to recall? What if the dems stall long enough for people to reflect upon the bill and come to the conclusion that it is not in their best interests – they only need to unseat one and the rest will scurry toward the center. What if the repubs succeed in recalling a dem senator? It’s high drama.
Amidst the histrionics, what very few want to admit is that these are clear shockwaves that the American consumer- debt-driven society is unraveling before our very eyes. Our energy sources are on life support, our entire infrastructure is senescent, and our environment is succumbing to the decay wrought by over a century of dereliction. People want to treat the economy like it’s some thing that exists outside of and independent from what we do and how we live. The economy cannot rebound because energy will inflate every other cost.
DBC,
If you want to talk about legality and the process through which this bill is being debated, then remember that – on February 18th – the Republicans attempted an illegal vote which they were forced to rescind.
Watch it here: http://www.wiseye.org/Programming/VideoArchive/EventDetail.aspx?evhdid=3759
Click on Part 4 and go about 2 minutes in. The Republicans called a session to debate amendments to begin at 5:00 PM. At 4:57, they started voting on the unamended bill. At 4:58, the Democrats rushed in, demanding that they stop. The Republican leadership told the Republicans to keep going. It was only after massive protest – and the production of an e-mail proving that the Democrats had been lied to by the Republicans – that they agreed to rescind the vote. The Republicans tried to trick the Democrats, and attempted to push through the bill before Democrats had even entered the room.
Then let’s also remember that 2 separate judges ruled this week that the Department of Administration’s attempts to keep the protesters out of the capitol were illegal.
And more from the court of public opinion:
Rasmussen poll, released today:
Walker approval rating: 43%
Walker disapproval rating: 57%
The 14 dems ARE doing their job. On behalf of the people.
Without the 14 Democratic senators holding out, Walker would have had his bill rubber stamped by the GOP legislature in less than a week. That was his plan. This is the equivalent of a filibuster and it’s fine by me. The governor has grossly overstepped his mandate. With any luck, the people of Wisconsin will not wait until the next regularly scheduled election to restore some checks and balances to what we have at the moment.
I looked at the numbers last night about how close the elections where last November – in the Republican wave several senators won by very slim margins – Walker’s budget has no shot now and the big question is how many of his party’s senators he’s willing to sacrifice for his posturing for (absolutely not the people of Wisconsin!) the Republicans in DC. Kudos to you J Rosenberg for your early analysis on senatorial recalls – it has proven to be most insightful.